Ribbon Snake ID

[NickB]

I'm picking this guy up tomorrow but I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to IDing Ribbon Snakes. Am I right in thinking this is Thamnophis sauritus sauritus (Eastern Ribbon Snake)?
http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i371/Nickbenger/576632_399408210174139_2134816349_n_zps3a253f90.jp g (http://s1090.photobucket.com/user/Nickbenger/media/576632_399408210174139_2134816349_n_zps3a253f90.jp g.html)

[Stefan-A]

Leaning towards T. proximus proximus, but I'm far from certain.

[NickB]

Is it just the two dots on the head that separate Proximus from Sauritus? Now you've mentioned it I've done some googling but that's all I can come up with.

[Stefan-A]

It's not the only difference, but it's the easiest difference to spot. Telling them apart is a real pain in the ***.

[NickB]

It's not the only difference, but it's the easiest difference to spot. Telling them apart is a real pain in the ***.

Is there a scale count I can use?

[guidofatherof5]

This is from The Garter Snake Evolution and Ecology by Rossman, Ford and Seigel.
Not sure it will be much help.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//744/medium/T_sauritus_id.jpg http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//744/medium/T_proximus_id.jpg

[NickB]

It is helpful, I just need to learn how to count the scales now! I had a wiki of Dorsal Scales and it looks like there is a particular way to count them. I will have to wait for the snake to shed anyhow.

[guidofatherof5]

Snake scales - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_scales)

How to count scales (http://www.seanthomas.net/oldsite/scount.html)

[NickB]

Snake scales - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_scales)

How to count scales (http://www.seanthomas.net/oldsite/scount.html)

Thank you, that's great :D

[guidofatherof5]

Can the seller give you any info. I'm guessing they were imported so there must be some info. somewhere. Maybe where they were collected?

[NickB]

Can the seller give you any info. I'm guessing they were imported so there must be some info. somewhere. Maybe where they were collected?

They are being sold as CF. I asked if they knew where they came from, they just said "America I think". I will ask again tomorrow when I go collect it and can see if I can get any more information.

[NickB]

I just spent about 30 minutes looking at photos of Ribbon Snakes and asking some garter-mad friends and I'm confident it's T. proximus proximus. I'll probably still do a scale count when it sheds.