Must I hibernate them for breeding?

[Lee]

I have a pair of wandering garters that I hope to breed this coming spring, however the question arises, must I hibernate them? The female has not hibernated in 3 years so I am unsure how she would do, that and I can't bear to see my huge terrarium-- empty.. So is there a way to dodge the hibernation? Maybe I'll get lucky and they will just mate without it...

[Stefan-A]

Well, they say that it's not necessary to hibernate them, but it increases the chances of them mating. I didn't hibernate mine (T.s.parietalis), but I did shut off the lights and heating for over a month in the fall when they stopped eating, and they mated.

Then again, parietalis are different. They can apparently be stimulated to mate by significantly lowering the temperature for a day or two.

[Snaky]

Stefan is right, it's not necessary always, but the results are better when hibernated.

Although I would like to add that it's probably better for the health of your snake to give it a hibernation period.

[Stefan-A]

Although I would like to add that it's probably better for the health of your snake to give it a hibernation period.
You know more than I do for sure, but it would make sense to me that hibernation would have a negative effect? Wouldn't it cause stress and lower the immune system?

[Morph]

You know more than I do for sure, but it would make sense to me that hibernation would have a negative effect? Wouldn't it cause stress and lower the immune system?

My thoughts of it (purely speculation and not based on anything scientific) is that it gives the snake a "reboot". I always thought of it as a way of them to clean out thier system and start fresh for the next year.

[Snaky]

I certainly don't know more ;) It's more something I've heard from others and experienced it myself.

It's true that it's a risk, but that's only for an unhealthy snake (sick, to thin, having parasites, ...). Of course you can't always see that your snake is unhealthy... Another thing is, you need to prepare it well. Nothing in the guts, no sudden drops, ... So I agree, it's always a risk.

Otherwise it's a normal cycle they do every year and it will longer their live. During the hibernation they go in a more 'passive mode'. It's like they don't age that much when in hibernation. They also look 'refreshed' once they are out of hibernation.

[drache]

I would think that it's good for them to give their system a thorough rest like that
not that I know
I just draw parallels to other beings (fish, humans)

[Stefan-A]

My point was, is it really rest? In the wild, a significant portion of them die during hibernation. Wouldn't that indicate that it jeopardizes their health? In the wild, it's often just a necessary evil.

In humans, I'd rather compare it to fasting, than to rest. Puts a great deal of strain on the systems.

[enigma200316]

ok so for us new comers like me that don't really have much experiance
with garters, what would be the best steps to take to put your snake(s)
into hibernation?

[reptileparadise]

I usually wait until it gets a bit colder outside. This affects the temperatures of my reptileroom. The animals will notice this and start preparing for hibernation. When the temperatures start to drop, I start reducing the hours of light a day. I reduce it with about an hour a week.
As soon as I start reducing the lighthours, I stop feeding them (usually they already stopped eating well before that)
When I'm down to about 8 hours of light a day, I shut their lights off.
After two weeks without any other light then daylight, I move them to their hibernating boxes.


In the wild, a significant portion of them die during hibernation.

Yes, indeed. But like snaky says

It's true that it's a risk, but that's only for an unhealthy snake (sick, to thin, having parasites, ...).

I have never seen any wild garters, but I guess they wont look like as healthy as our captive snakes

[drache]

My point was, is it really rest? In the wild, a significant portion of them die during hibernation. Wouldn't that indicate that it jeopardizes their health? In the wild, it's often just a necessary evil.

In humans, I'd rather compare it to fasting, than to rest. Puts a great deal of strain on the systems.

I was thinking of fasting as one parallel
and yes it can be a bit of a strain on an already deficient organism, but then again it can clear out disease at times
also I was thinking of the research that's been done with seasonal sleep cycles (at Stamford Univ.). There is some evidence that humans that sleep seasonally (longer hours in winter) have better functioning immune systems (lower incidence of certain illnesses)
I also wonder whether the ones that die during the winter months are the aged and otherwise frail (just like in human populations). Perhaps some of them are just in the wrong part of the den.
brumation may be primarily a survival strategy, but when it has become part of a species cycles over many generations, I imagine that it has gotten tied in with more than just their reproductive cycles, even though that may be the most obvious.
there is so much we don't know . . .

[Stefan-A]

there is so much we don't know . . .
My point exactly. I for one would like to see some concrete "proof" that the snake actually benefits from the process.

In the wild, if I remember correctly, up to 1/3 - 1/2 of the snakes may die during hibernation, with young snakes having a higher mortality rate than older ones.

[adamanteus]

To answer the original question....no, hibernation is not essential for breeding. However, the period of cold/inactivity triggers the production of sex cells, so the chances of a successful mating are higher in a snake that has been hibernated.

[drache]

My point exactly. I for one would like to see some concrete "proof" that the snake actually benefits from the process.

In the wild, if I remember correctly, up to 1/3 - 1/2 of the snakes may die during hibernation, with young snakes having a higher mortality rate than older ones.

I had no idea the numbers were this high
I must have totally passed over that in my reading

[Stefan-A]

Like I said: if I remember correctly. :) Anyway, that definitely wasn't something like an average mortality rate.


Just for comparison, according to the wikipedia article on Vipera berus, 15% of adults and 30-40% of juveniles die during hibernation. Of course, this is a different species, but both are very tolerant to cold climates.

[Snaky]

Well, I know quite some breeders who hibernate their snakes and even the newborns. Some hibernate very late newborns even directly. They still have a very low mortality rate on those and say the hibernation has a good effect on their eating. Normally late newborns are problem feeders from the beginning, which make's them very weak. But the hibernation is apparently naturally to them.

Maybe it can't be taken as proof, but snakes of the same species tend to live longer if they're hibernated. This is also something from keepers, not scientific. But maybe somebody knows about some studies about it?

PS: This will probably be the last post before I go on holiday, till over a couple of weeks :)

[Stefan-A]

I think this might be a case where quality vs. quantity can be compared. ;) Some T.s.parietalis populations spend around 8 months of the year in hibernation and only get a couple of months of "growth period" each year. Wouldn't be surprised if spending 2/3 of your life in hibernation would let you live a bit longer. ;) Not 3 times as long, though.

Enjoy your holiday. :)

[ssssnakeluvr]

I have had wanderings for many years. they do fine without hibernating...however the coold down cycle stimulates the reproductive cycle...without it, wandering pretty much won't breed. Some of the garters from more temerate climates don't need a big cool down period, just shorter light hours and slightly cooler temps...

[Lulu Bennett]

Like I said: if I remember correctly. :) Anyway, that definitely wasn't something like an average mortality rate.


Just for comparison, according to the wikipedia article on Vipera berus, 15% of adults and 30-40% of juveniles die during hibernation. Of course, this is a different species, but both are very tolerant to cold climates.

just recognised these stats. baced on the stats of a Adder (Vipera Berus) from sweeden where they hibernate for 8-9 months. heres the link...
Vipera berus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vipera_berus) its under behavior

[Lulu Bennett]

i was just thinking(doesn't happen often) the stats for snakes dying during hibernation, is that not mostly from preditor attacks?

[adamanteus]

i was just thinking(doesn't happen often) the stats for snakes dying during hibernation, is that not mostly from preditor attacks?

Interesting point, Lulu. I would suspect it is cold or starvation that kills most of them though.

[Lulu Bennett]

fair enough. i just thought i would check lol but still the stats wouldn't be as high in captive snakes tho unless we are horrid enough to turn all form of heating off and starve them for ages before hibernating them.

[adamanteus]

I agree. I think with captive snakes, hibernation is a much safer event....We ensure our snakes are well fed beforehand, the drop in temperature is gradual and never extreme. In short we create the ideal environment for a successful hibernation.

Of course, in the wild a snake might fail to fatten up enough during the year. The temperature may suddenly plummet, or reach extremes beyond the snake's endurance.

[enigma200316]

I don't know much, but it would seem to me the only reason any animal
would hibernate is because...its there way of getting through the cold months when food is rare and hard to find...then the instict is to mate when they come out of that horrible ordeal to preserve the population
so to speak.....other than that I don't think it really does anything for them, maybe some rejuvination,but maybe not because they basicly shut down everything, haven't ate in months, got the whole matting thing to worry about, I don't know thats just my opinion!!!!!!!

[adamanteus]

Doubtless it's a survival tactic, but it has developed into a part of their life cycle. Certainly snakes that have been hibernated live longer in captivity than those which are not hibernated. I don't think this is down to any form of rejuvenation, just non-hibernated snakes "burn-out" more quickly. I guess they are only allocated a certain amount of "active" time.

[KITKAT]

For some herp species, brumation (not hibernation) is part of an annual biological rhythm that is sensitive to the seasons. Even when such an animal is not induced into brumation in captivity, some biological/physiological changes are observed while the animal lives indoors in constant conditions. Day night rhythms are also found in indoor animals kept in constant environments, and are called "Circadian Rhythm". These rhythms are demonstrated to change hormone levels, fat to body ratio, changes in organ weights, and other such phenomena.

I suspect a short and mild brumation in captive animals is beneficial to those species. And yes, they develop this seasonal sensitivity and the ability to brumate in order to survive winter... but once that evolution is complete, and they have the ability and this rhythm built in, then it is what is natural for them, and not an ordeal.

Just my $.02:D