Discussion: Photographic Libary/Species Identification Thread.

[guidofatherof5]

This thread is to begin a discussion on building a new Thamnophis Photographic Library. My hopes are that we as a forum can come to some agreement as to the information needed and how it should look.
I personally think it should have a uniform look to it and uniform information. This not only gives us a great library to look at but also the guest that visit. Done correctly it could be one of the "Go to" places on the web for this information.

1. How simple or detailed should it be?

2. Will anything be used as a reference to check/verify information posted? Example: The Garter Snake- Evolution and Ecology by Rossman, Ford and Seigal.

3. What will the mandatory information required to accompany a photo/s?
a. Scientific name-Species and or subspecies
b. Common Name
c. Scale Count
1.Infralabial-Lower mouth
2.Supralabial-Upper mouth
3.Dorsal-Body
4.Ventral-Belly

4. Description of snake?

5. What will the photo requirements be?

Any and all feedback would be great.

[Steveo]

I think the easiest way would be to start with widely accepted data and then add pictures with specifics. For example (just pulling numbers out of my butt here) Species X has supralabial scale count of 11-13; picture 1 has 11, picture 2 has 13, etc.

Doing it that way would make it easier to submit pictures - just define the types of pictures needed. Someone else (curator?) could always do the scale counts and add it to the library.

[gregmonsta]

It would definitely need some moderation. But, beyond the intitial detail pics for specific ID (which should be very high quality) I think there should be an additional folder with wide ranging coverage of phenotypes.

[reptileparadise]

Only and most important.... Photo's must be crystal clear and there will need to be a lot of moderation on that!

I have a personal dislike for all kinds of blurry photo's, but when it comes to ID-ing a snake, its of even greater importance I guess....

[Stefan-A]

Distribution maps, or a list of states, provinces, territories and countries where the individual species occur in the wild. This would be important for IDing wildcaught snakes.

The Rossman et al. book has an identification key to different species and subspecies. If someone would like to turn that from text to something like a flow chart, that would be great. The problem is that far from all species can be identified that way.

We need multiple pictures of each species and subspecies, if there's significant polymorphism. Those of you who have garters in your backyard have the privilege of being able to give the location.

We need pictures of the whole snake, the face and the belly (if there's something noteworthy about the belly pattern).

We may need pictures of animals of different ages. Proportions and coloration change over time. There is also some sexual dimorphism that needs to be illustrated.

We should consider whether we want to include pictures of morphs produced in captivity, or whether that just serves to confuse people.

Pictures need to be cropped to show what's relevant and nothing more. We don't need works of art, we need sharp pictures taken in appropriate lighting.

No random pictures found on the net. Everyone needs to have the rights to the pictures and be able to say with a degree of certainty what species and subspecies are featured.

The biggest problems with the old library, was that every taxon was on one page, which made it messy and slow to load, and that pictures were over time removed or just moved from their original location, which resulted in broken links.

EVERY piece of fact needs to have a properly referenced source.

This project will probably need to be taken elsewhere. Does anyone feel up to starting a garter wiki?

[guidofatherof5]

I would if I knew how.

[Steveo]

I volunteer Stefan as tribute.

[guidofatherof5]

I volunteer Stefan as tribute.

I second that nomination.:D

[Stefan-A]

I volunteer Stefan as tribute.
Whatever gets me out of making the photographic library.

[guidofatherof5]

Wait, I thought we were voting Stefan to do the whole thing.

[Steveo]

Wait, I thought we were voting Stefan to do the whole thing.

Same. I did not use commas for a reason!

[Stefan-A]

Same. I did not use commas for a reason!

Wait, I thought you were giving me the option to participate in a fight to the death.

[guidofatherof5]

Wait, I thought you were giving me the option to participate in a fight to the death.

No fighting needed. The job is yours. :D

[Stefan-A]

No fighting needed. The job is yours. :D
I'd take a dive first.

[Steveo]

Plot twist: the loser has to do it.

[Stefan-A]

Plot twist: the loser has to do it.
Are you volunteering?

[SilasBannook]

Guys,
How do you want to handle morphisms? I am excited about this project you are proposing. I expect a lot of conversation on this thread will deal with positive association of a morph with its base classification. Perhaps that concept goes without saying for this project. Just wanted to raise the flag on that as that will be one of the coolest things I think people will look to on the library. Base identification of snakes will be a major use but this could become a great tool to help standardize naming and classification of morphs. I am looking forward to the project and have one unique snake I believe will be a good contributor.
Suggestion is a identification field for morphism. If there is none, the subject picture(s) would say none, otherwise there is a lot of value to specifying the different morphisms of the snake pictures you will have.