Hello people.

[Tarzier]

Hello, I'm new here and to Snakes in general. I've owned reptiles before(Back when I was kid) and they never really worked out well because myself and my parents weren't too knowledgeable on the subject. However, this time I've done the research and hopefully have done things properly, and so far my new Garter seems to be doing quite well.

I've owned him for maybe a month or so, and he generally eats well and has just finished shedding(Happened in a couple pieces, but much better than the shed he was going through when I bought him). I bought him(Or her, still not quite sure) from Petco, which I know isn't too smart, but I don't really know anywhere else I could get one around here. He was sold to me as an Indonesian, though I don't really know, and at the moment he's about a foot and half. He's pretty active, explores his enclosure alot, and doesn't seem too bothered by me when I handle him, in fact, I found out fairly quickly that while he won't eat from my hand, he'll eat while I'm holding him, so I don't think he's too worried about me.

That's about all I can think of to say, but so far this forum has given quite a bit of information about how to go about some of this stuff and I look forward to any advice I can get, and in the future, give.

[Stefan-A]

Welcome aboard.

[Tarzier]

Thank you, I fairly certain I'll enjoy it here.

[indigoman]

Welcome aboard, a pic would help us properly identify the species.

[Tarzier]

I plan on it, but I need to get a camera from my mom to do that, as I don't normally have a reason to take pictures of anything. But he's mostly black, with the white specks near his head and four gold-brown stripes that taper off into two as they get closer to the tail. The underbelly is white and black, scale by scale, which looks pretty cool in my opinion.

[guidofatherof5]

Nice to have you with us. What you have there probably isn't a true garter snake. They are advertised as an "Indonesian Garter Snake"
Probably a Striped Keelback-Xenochrophis vittatus
Striped keelback - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Striped_keelback)

What are you feeding it?
You should also know that these are usually wild caught and carry a parasite load. Getting a fecal float done and treatment for parasites is money well spent as few of these survive captivity very long in most cases.
I think they are an awesome snake and if they were captive bred I would keep them.
I did find this on-line care sheet for them and some other info.
I do believe one of our members, aSnakeLovinBabe-Shannon has them or used to keep them.
Striped keelback, aka indonesian garter snake Care Sheet - Care, Diet, Housing Enclosures, Sexing, Lighting, Temperatures, Vitamin and Calcium Supplements. (http://www.repticzone.com/caresheets/2089.html)

Indonesian Garter Snake Questions... - Reptile Forums (http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/snakes/118657-indonesian-garter-snake-questions.html)

[guidofatherof5]

I plan on it, but I need to get a camera from my mom to do that, as I don't normally have a reason to take pictures of anything. But he's mostly black, with the white specks near his head and four gold-brown stripes that taper off into two as they get closer to the tail. The underbelly is white and black, scale by scale, which looks pretty cool in my opinion.

Sounds like a Striped-keelback. Beautiful snakes.

[guidofatherof5]

Nice to have you with us. What you have there probably isn't a true garter snake. They are advertised as an "Indonesian Garter Snake"
Probably a Striped Keelback-Xenochrophis vittatus
Striped keelback - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Striped_keelback)

What are you feeding it?
You should also know that these are usually wild caught and carry a parasite load. Getting a fecal float done and treatment for parasites is money well spent as few of these survive captivity very long in most cases.
I think they are an awesome snake and if they were captive bred I would keep them.
I did find this on-line care sheet for them and some other info.
I do believe one of our members, aSnakeLovinBabe-Shannon has them or used to keep them.
Striped keelback, aka indonesian garter snake Care Sheet - Care, Diet, Housing Enclosures, Sexing, Lighting, Temperatures, Vitamin and Calcium Supplements. (http://www.repticzone.com/caresheets/2089.html)

Indonesian Garter Snake Questions... - Reptile Forums (http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/snakes/118657-indonesian-garter-snake-questions.html)

Where are my manners.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//744/medium/welcome.jpg

[Tarzier]

Oh...Wow, he looks exactly like one of the pictures in the Reptile Forums. So, if he isn't a Garter Snake, exactly what should I expect in terms of full length? Also, he was fed Red Minnows at PetCo and I'm in the process of transferring him to Pinkies, which he takes well if they're scented enough. I am reading the information on this breed, but any other information(Even its the same, I like information from multiple sources) would be great.

[guidofatherof5]

I gave a call to Shannon(left message) so hopefully it was here phone I called and she will stop by to add to the thread.
Ditch the Rosy minnows(except for scenting). Look in the care sheet and read about thiaminase. If scenting pinkies is working that's great. I do believe they will also take night crawlers too.
I once gain suggest strongly that you look into getting a fecal float done. Maybe call the seller and ask if he knows whether they are wild caught or captive bred. Knowing Petco they are wild caught.

[Tarzier]

I've researched quite a bit about Garter Snakes before buying him, so I know all about the thiaminase, which is why I wanted to get him on Pinkies besides the fact they're more nutritional. I haven't looked into a Vet as of yet, which I know is not a good thing. It's just that the closest Herp Vet is about 1hour away or so. I live in a farming community so most of the Vets here take care of Cats, Dogs, and other farm animals. I have a quick question though, I've already asked in the Husbandry forum, but I'll ask here as well; The closest pet shop(PetCo) is 40min away, so I was thinking of just getting frozen fish fillet to scent with. I read that notice about the chemicals in pre-packaged fillets could be dangerous so I don't plan on feeding the fillets to him, but would using them to scent the mice be dangerous?

[guidofatherof5]

Do you have a college near by? If they have a biology dept. they may do the fecal float for free. The other thing would be to get a weight on the snake and see if a Vet. will give/sell you some panacur to treat it with. I don't usually recommend treating without a positive test but this species is noted for having a heavy parasite load. You can also purchase Panacur online and dose it yourself.

Store (http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Panacurliquid.html)

[Tarzier]

Ah, well, I already called up the Vet and made an account for myself and my snake. I plan on setting up a visit next week. I was a little worried about the price but it was quite a bit cheaper than I was thinking, about $20 for a check-up and $40 or so for the Float, as they send it to an outside lab with better equipment. I'm glad you guys have pointed me in the direction I need to go on this, as I just assumed that since he was at the pet store it was captive bred. Will there be any physical signs of parasites? Because I haven't noticed anything that looks odd. The only thing was that during this last shed, before he actually did shed the skin, he was a little wrinkly where his body turned and when I picked him up to see if something was wrong(I never noticed a blue phase, so I didn't know he was shedding) he would let out little bursts of air. I just thought he was trying to be threatening with those once I figured out he was shedding.

But his shed went completely fine, it wasn't a 1-piece shed, but it wasn't alot of pieces either, only 2 or 3 and they all came off easily, so I'm not too worried about that....Unless I should be?

[guidofatherof5]

You won't see any signs of most parasites in the feces.
If a shed is in pieces then all the pieces should match up and equal a complete shed. The eye caps and a complete tail shed being most important to see.
Here's a shed box video. Shed boxes can be a snake saver. Retained sheds are deadly in most instances if not removed.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs0Vqm2pP18

[Tarzier]

Ya, I seen your video in another thread, and the last time he shed I wasn't expecting it and the shed didn't go too well and I had to help him get the last of it off his tail. I didn't look for the eyecap sheds and can't now as the shed is sitting at the bottom of my trashcan, but I remember reading that if the caps didn't come off, or come off the right way, his eyes might appear to be sunken or something along that line. His eyes look fine though as I did check for that and I can't find any evidence of old skin left on him. It may not have been a perfect shed, but it was very good and was interesting to watch him do it.

Since I have a rather large water dish for him to swim and soak in, unlike the first time, I think it helped alot. Specially since I use that... Reptisafe water cleaner, and I think it has stuff in it to help in that regard. I also didn't try matching up the pieces, but I was watching him for pretty much the whole time he was working his way out of the skin, I'm pretty sure they would have. Is it normal for the shed skin to look longer than the snake itself? Cause it did, I figured it was because the skin stretched. And he doesn't let out those small bursts of air anymore either, that stopped the day he shed, so I think it really was supposed to be 'threatening'.

[Tarzier]

By the way, thanks for all the information you've given me, I appreciate it and the time you've taken to give it. I may know alot of it already, as I've done alot of research beforehand, and continue to do so now, but it's always nice to hear it again and from someone with experience. It's also a bonus(For me at least) to get information from multiple sources, especially if it's something repeated often, as it cements it as truth for me. Especially from the actual Breeders and Caretakers that have years, if not decades of experience with the subject.

I'm not naive enough to believe everything you read in Care Books, as I've found most experienced people disagree with alot of that information. That's one of the reasons I decided to finally make an account on here instead of just browsing the Forums.

Once again, thanks.

[guidofatherof5]

Ya, I seen your video in another thread, and the last time he shed I wasn't expecting it and the shed didn't go too well and I had to help him get the last of it off his tail. I didn't look for the eyecap sheds and can't now as the shed is sitting at the bottom of my trashcan, but I remember reading that if the caps didn't come off, or come off the right way, his eyes might appear to be sunken or something along that line. His eyes look fine though as I did check for that and I can't find any evidence of old skin left on him. It may not have been a perfect shed, but it was very good and was interesting to watch him do it.

Since I have a rather large water dish for him to swim and soak in, unlike the first time, I think it helped alot. Specially since I use that... Reptisafe water cleaner, and I think it has stuff in it to help in that regard. I also didn't try matching up the pieces, but I was watching him for pretty much the whole time he was working his way out of the skin, I'm pretty sure they would have. Is it normal for the shed skin to look longer than the snake itself? Cause it did, I figured it was because the skin stretched. And he doesn't let out those small bursts of air anymore either, that stopped the day he shed, so I think it really was supposed to be 'threatening'.

I've never seen a sunken look on retained eye caps, guess it's possible.

You are right. Most sheds are longer then the actual snake because of the skin not only scales that come off.

[Tarzier]

Ah, I guess I never realised they shed their skin too(I just said skin out of habit, never put much thought into that exact wording), I thought it was just the scales. Makes sense though, otherwise it'd be like growing new teeth and the old scales would just be pushed off by the new ones. By the way, I've been watching some of the videos on your Youtube channel, and they're great videos. Just watched the one of the Plains giving birth, that was really interesting.

And about the retained eyecaps, maybe I'm just remembering wrong, or it was about a different kind of snake. What other signs would there be for them? Cloudy-looking eyes?

[guidofatherof5]

Cloudy eyes is in the beginning of the shed(opaque phase, blue phase, Ecdysis) process.
If it were me, I'd grab another trash can or trash bag and find that shed:D

Thank you for your kind words about my videos. ;)

[Tarzier]

Well, after looking through some more info on Striped Keelbacks, I think I may go ahead and buy some of that Panacur now. I didn't realise how dire the situation could possibly be until I ran across a thread on here about them. I hadn't really thought about looking through here for info on them, but searching goggle brought me to the thread. It was there I found that alot of people have major problems with them, and that for them, they had a tendency to die, even if they were doing well. I'm not too worried, but I will now definately take him to the Vet.

Also, most of the info you find on these things tell you pretty much the same thing. To use Garter care sheets but with slightly higher temps and humidity, with a larger water dish. And to take them to a Vet.

[Tarzier]

Oh, also, whats the best way to deliver liquid medications? I seen your video, but he's very head shy, and I have problems holding him still like that. Am I able to inject the liquid into a food item for him? Like into the belly of a Pinkie, Silverside, or even into a piece of Fillet?

[guidofatherof5]

Well, after looking through some more info on Striped Keelbacks, I think I may go ahead and buy some of that Panacur now. I didn't realise how dire the situation could possibly be until I ran across a thread on here about them. I hadn't really thought about looking through here for info on them, but searching goggle brought me to the thread. It was there I found that alot of people have major problems with them, and that for them, they had a tendency to die, even if they were doing well. I'm not too worried, but I will now definately take him to the Vet.

Also, most of the info you find on these things tell you pretty much the same thing. To use Garter care sheets but with slightly higher temps and humidity, with a larger water dish. And to take them to a Vet.

Screening for and treatment of parasites in the species is money well spent. They are a beautiful snake but kept in such unsanitary condition when caught and shipped. They are one non-garter species that I would take on here at the Ranch if I could only find some captive bred animals.
Please keep us post on your snake. Looking forward to some photos.(hint. hint);)

[Tarzier]

Sorry if these pictures are huge, I'm new to forums and didn't know how to make thumbnails.86768677867886798680


Edit: Guess it does it automatically, cool. Also, I think he may have been sleeping, and was a little spooked. He kept running around and didn't tolerate being held this time. Usually he's fine with it.

[guidofatherof5]

Good looking snake.

How are you heating the tub? What is the black wire for?

Having wires going in from the top is a sure fire escape area for these masters of escape. You could drill a hole in the side just big enough for the sensor. Don't apply too much pressure as you drill or the plastic will crack. Holding a piece of wood on the opposite side of the plastic will help it not to crack as you drill. Some people also burn the whole in the plastic with a soldering gun.
Use a hot glue gun to seal the hole once you have the sensor placed.
Just an idea.

[Tarzier]

The black wire in the back is the 'outside' thermometer for my Thermo/Hygrometer, and the one in front is the thermostat probe for the UTH. I also keep the ambient heat up during the day with the overhead bulb, and turn it off at night. I never thought about sealing the holes back up with a hot glue gun, which is why they came in from the top. The probes are pretty big at the front, and any hole big enough for them would have been an exit area. I was already worried at first about the wires coming in from the top, but they don't leave big gaps, and I've been playing with the idea of just melting the plastic where they come in from a little so they sit in the frame. And the little gaps they leave now, are held down by the lid, which he isn't strong enough to move...At the moment.

Hot glue gun is an idea though, thanks.

[chris-uk]

Hot glue gun is an idea though, thanks.

Hot glue is the answer to many problems involving vivaria.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Your striped keelback is beautiful and looks to be in very decent condition. These snakes are pretty easy to keep, but they do tend to suffer from the "drop dead syndrome" that many fragile imports suffer from. Truthfully, you can keep this snake set up just as you would a garter snake, and feed it as you would a garter snake. The only thing I might suggest you do differently is slightly higher humidity, and provide a moist container filled with damp sphagnum moss or coco fibre. These guys seem to have delicate skin that dries out and has shedding problems easily. As with many imports it is pretty common for these guys to harbor a number of internal parasites which may or may NOT be harmful to the snake. Many parasite live inside of their host for the host's entire life and cause no ill effects. Certain types, especially in an immune-suppressed animal, can cause harm, and if you keep other reptiles, then it's more of a concern because the species of worms that may be harmless to your snake, can be much more harmful to a snake from another country that has no natural resistance or experience with this type of worm. The thing with imported snakes, especially more delicate ones like these, is that medications made to kill internal parasites, are likely a cause of death in some cases, whether acute or delayed for years. Remember, these medications are toxins designed to kill, and the ways they interact with various species, especially a little worked with one such as this, is still pretty much unknown. So if it is your only reptile, and it is thriving, I might consider not having a bunch of medication pumped into it. Internal parasites aren't always the end of the world. Heck one in three of us has them and we don't even know it. The major cause for concern is if you have other reptiles, that the parasite is not native to, they can potentially cause more damage there and will have to be dealt with. And if you do seek a vet, make sure you seek one that is well versed in exotic reptiles, particularly tiny ones. They are few and far between. I have seen vets that have never treated a snake in their life claim they knew what was going on with a snake, only to almost kill the poor thing. My local reptile vet just chewed my friend out for not having a desert UVB lamp on her leopard gecko, and for keeping it on tile instead of calcium sand. And I thought she knew what she was doing, until then.

[Tarzier]

Thanks for the info. I had already pumped up the humidity a little but thanks nonetheless. I knew that some internal parasites are fine, but I didn't know that trying to treat for parasites might kill him. I may take your advice and wait a bit on the medication, unless the Vet says otherwise. Also, I'm not sure whether or not this Vet has alot of experience with Exotics, but he does specialize in Exotic animals, so I hope he does. Unfortunately, this guy is probably the closest Reptile Vet to me, and hes an hour away, in a different state. So if he doesn't work out too well, I'm not sure what my other options would be.

[Foxrun402]

He does look good a little thin as well, I would try and find some DMF nightcrawlers at WalMart, and you can also find Tupperware there that would be suitable to create a moist hide for cheap! I got a small container for 3$ and its got plenty of room for my 8 month old Parietalis to dig around in, just keep it loaded up with sphagnum moss and water to keep it moist, just need enough for the moss to be moist dosent have to have resting water on the bottom. But nightcrawlers are mostly made up of water and are a less fatty food and they can eat more of them and more frequently then pinkies. will produce a runny watery fecal matter and might clean the snake out a little.

[Tarzier]

He does look good a little thin as well, I would try and find some DMF nightcrawlers at WalMart, and you can also find Tupperware there that would be suitable to create a moist hide for cheap! I got a small container for 3$ and its got plenty of room for my 8 month old Parietalis to dig around in, just keep it loaded up with sphagnum moss and water to keep it moist, just need enough for the moss to be moist dosent have to have resting water on the bottom. But nightcrawlers are mostly made up of water and are a less fatty food and they can eat more of them and more frequently then pinkies. will produce a runny watery fecal matter and might clean the snake out a little.I may have to try out the tubberware idea, but as for worms, I've tried those already and he just ignores them. Literally. Looks like all he wants is fish(Or fish-scented pinkies). And he is thin, but it doesn't seem to be for any reason, I feed him well and everything. Maybe his species is just thin? I'm not sure, but he seems to be very healthy and active in all other matters. He's about two feet long, maybe a few inches longer, but he's only about as round as a dime, maybe slightly less. By slightly, I mean millimeters.

Thanks for the advice.

[guidofatherof5]

Is this the T.sirtalis you posted about earlier?

[Tarzier]

Nah, this was about my Striped Keelback.

[guidofatherof5]

Thanks for the clarification.
From what I understand about the species they do live a mainly fish diet but I think other things(pinkies) could be scented and introduced.
Does you snake feed off hemostats?

[Tarzier]

Hemostats?

[guidofatherof5]

Hemostats?

Hemostat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemostat)

If you have none(which it sounds like) I would be glad to send you a couple pair for free. I have more then I could ever use. Just PM me your name and address and I'll get them out in the post on Monday.

[Tarzier]

Hemostat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemostat)

If you have none(which it sounds like) I would be glad to send you a couple pair for free. I have more then I could ever use. Just PM me your name and address and I'll get them out in the post on Monday.Ah,I don't need any. I've got something like that already, but he's afraid of it. Much easier for me to feed him the way I do now.

[guidofatherof5]

Ah,I don't need any. I've got something like that already, but he's afraid of it. Much easier for me to feed him the way I do now.

Which is?

[Tarzier]

I put his food on a flat surface outside of his tank, I pick him up and move his head over by the food. He eats while I hold him.

On a side note, whats a normal shedding rate?

[guidofatherof5]

I put his food on a flat surface outside of his tank, I pick him up and move his head over by the food. He eats while I hold him.

On a side note, whats a normal shedding rate?

It varies because of size, age, food intake, etc. It's impossible to put it on a calendar with any amount of certainty.
Sorry, I can't be more specific.

[chris-uk]

It varies because of size, age, food intake, etc. It's impossible to put it on a calendar with any amount of certainty.
Sorry, I can't be more specific.

And even snakes you think you know will surprise you every now and then by going ahead or behind "schedule". :)

[Tarzier]

Ah, I was just wondering because it looks like Salazar is shedding again, and it's only been 3 or 4 weeks since the last time. He also doesn't seem to have a 'blue phase', I have yet to see his eyes turn a bluish color. I only noticed he was starting to shed because his underbelly was faded and because he does this one odd thing when he starts shedding. When I hold him or start going through his tank to clean it, he'll sometimes let out these short bursts of audible air.

[chris-uk]

Ah, I was just wondering because it looks like Salazar is shedding again, and it's only been 3 or 4 weeks since the last time. He also doesn't seem to have a 'blue phase', I have yet to see his eyes turn a bluish color. I only noticed he was starting to shed because his underbelly was faded and because he does this one odd thing when he starts shedding. When I hold him or start going through his tank to clean it, he'll sometimes let out these short bursts of audible air.

Nothing sounds unusual there.
I had one of my checkereds that shed 18 days after her previous shed.
The blue eyes can be over in less than a day sometimes (I've got to say that it normally lasts longer though), so possible to miss them.
And the "huffing", I've got a couple that will do it. My big Cuitzeo girl is pretty loud, others you only hear when they are close to your ear.

[Tarzier]

Well, I was cleaning out his tank a minute ago and his eyes are blue. Guess his order of his phases differ. Also, glad to hear he isn't unusual with the 'huffing', the first time it happened I was worried there was something wrong with his lungs or he was sick.

[guidofatherof5]

I know what you mean about "huffing" my 12 year old daughter Hailee has acquired the habit. Nothing makes me more mad then..................... Wait, never mind. This thread is about snakes.:D

[Tarzier]

Lol.