Hello from the UK.

[snakebeardies]

Hi everyone

I am new to the site and have recently got 2 lake chapalas and am getting a chequered this week. I wanted to join the forum as I've enjoyed reading your posts over these last few weeks and am enjoying my new garters too.

here are some pics of the new babas.

[Stefan-A]

Welcome aboard.

[guidofatherof5]

Nice to have you with us. Beautiful snakes.
Here's a link to the care sheet which is always a good read.

T. e. obscurus -(Lake Chapala Garter Snake)

Garter Snake Forum - Garter Caresheet (http://www.thamnophis.com/index.php?page=caresheet)

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//744/medium/welcome.jpg

[chris-uk]

Welcome from an almost seasonally warm Coventry.

How old are your obscurus? Are they last year's crop, or early 2013 babies?

[rickymar81]

welcome to the group. Nice looking snakes:cool:

[Natrix]

Welcome to the Den :D

[reptileparadise]

Welcome to the forum and good to see how the english crowd continues to grow!

It almost looks like garters are popular again in the UK....... :eek: Who would have thought!:D

[Selkielass]

Welcome to the Tham-ily!

[gregmonsta]

Greetings :D

[Invisible Snake]

Hello and welcome to the forum!

[snakebeardies]

Hello! Thanks for the replies :) I've already read your very handy care sheet, thank you :) much appreciated.

Mine are early 2013 babas.

Ive got one probably stupid question, so excuse my ignorance............if I had another garter, a different morph- say chequered, can I put it with the lake chapalas after quarantine or not? I'm sorry if its a very blonde post.

[chris-uk]

Hello! Thanks for the replies :) I've already read your very handy care sheet, thank you :) much appreciated.

Mine are early 2013 babas.

Nice to know the new crop is already starting to get new keepers hooked on garters. :)


Ive got one probably stupid question, so excuse my ignorance............if I had another garter, a different morph- say chequered, can I put it with the lake chapalas after quarantine or not? I'm sorry if its a very blonde post.

I just need to be picky for minute. Garter snakes aren't like snakes where different paint jobs are just morphs of the same species (for example, royal pythons where they are all the same species of snake) garter snakes all belong to the same genus (Thamnophis) and there are around 60 (of the top of my head I think it's about 60, someone will correct me if I'm wildly wrong) species and subspecies of garter snakes. So your Lake Chapala Garter is Thamnophis eques obsurus, a Checkered Garter would be Thamophis marcianus - so different species.
You do get garter snake morphs, the most common (in the UK) being an albino checkered, but the beauty of garters is that evolution has provided us with so many natural variations in colour, size etc. (there's great variation in colouring within some species in nature) that different coloured garter snakes are not just down to some random genetic aberration which is chanced on by a breeder.

Anyway, that aside. The answer to your question is... yes, you could keep different species together subject to certain caveats. They should always be the same sex (don't want to be producing hybrids) and they should be roughly the same size. What you may find a problem with your Lake Chapala is that they are one of the larger species and a Checkered the same age probably won't grow as quickly or as large. Saying that, my Lake Cuitzeo female is quite a lot larger than the female Plains and Red-sided garters that live with her, but she's the shy one of the group and shows no aggression even when eating.
Probably the best information about cohabiting garters is on Gregmonsta's website:
Communal housing - Thamnophis Alba - The Scottish Garter Snake (http://thamnophis-alba.webs.com/apps/blog/entries/show/5862375-communal-housing)

Hope this helps.

[-MARWOLAETH-]

Greetings from Swansea. It's always good to see eques ​:)

[snakebeardies]

Be picky all day long for me :) would much rather have straight talking.
Much appreciated :)

[guidofatherof5]

Hey Chris,

35 species with 52 subspecies.

1. Thamnophis angustirostris (Longnose Garter Snake)

2. Thamnophis atratus (Pacific Coast Aquatic Garter Snake)
T. a. atratus (Santa Cruz garter snake)
T. a. hydrophilus (Oregon garter snake)
T. a. zaxanthus (Diablo Range garter snake)

3. Thamnophis bogerti (Bogert's Garter Snake)

4. Thamnophis brachystoma (Short-Headed Garter Snake)

5. Thamnophis butleri (Butler's Garter Snake)

6. Thamnophis chrysocephalus (Golden-Headed Garter Snake)

7. Thamnophis conanti (Conant's Garter Snake)

8. Thamnophis couchii (Sierra Garter Snake)

9. Thamnophis cyrtopsis (Black-Necked Garter Snake)
T. c. collaris (Tropical blackneck garter snake)
T. c. cyrtopsis (Western blackneck garter snake)
T. c. ocellatus (Eastern blackneck garter snake)

10. Thamnophis elegans (Western Terrestial Garter Snake)
T. e. elegans (Mountain garter snake)
T. e. terrestris (Coast garter snake)
T. e. vagrans (Wandering garter snake)

11. Thamnophis eques (Mexican Garter Snake)
T. e. eques (Mexican garter snake)
T. e, carmenensis
T. e. cuitzeoensis
T. e. diluvialis
T. e. insperatus
T. e. obscurus
T. e. patzcuaroensis
T. e. scotti
T. e. megalops (Northern Mexican garter snake)
T. e. virgatenuis

12. Thamnophis errans (Mexican Wandering Garter Snake)

13. Thamnophis exsul (Exiled Garter Snake)

14. Thamnophis fulvus (Mesoamerican Highlands Garter Snake)

15. Thamnophis gigas (Giant Garter Snake)

16. Thamnophis godmani (Godman's Garter Snake)

17. Thamnophis hammondii (Two-Striped Garter Snake)

18. Thamnophis lineri (Liner's Garter Snake)

19. Thamnophis marcianus (Checkered Garter Snake)
T. m. bovallii
T. m. marcianus
T. m. praeocularis

20. Thamnophis melanogaster (Mexican Black-Bellied Garter Snake)
T. m. canescens (Gray blackbelly garter snake)
T. m. chihuahuaensis (Chihuahuan blackbelly garter snake)
T. m. linearis (Lined blackbelly garter snake)
T. m. melanogaster (Mexican blackbelly garter snake)

21. Thamnophis mendax (Tamaulipan Montane Garter Snake)

22. Thamnophis nigronuchalis (Southern Durango Spotted Garter Snake)

23. Thamnophis ordinoides (Northwestern Garter Snake)

24. Thamnophis postremus (Tepalcatepec Valley Garter Snake)

25. Thamnophis proximus (Western Ribbon Snake)
T. p. alpinus (Chiapas Highland ribbon snake)
T. p. diabolicus (Aridland ribbon snake)
T. p. orarius (Gulf coast ribbon snake)
T. p. proximus (Western ribbon snake)
T. p. rubrilineatus (Redstripe ribbon snake)
T. p. rutiloris (Mexican ribbon snake)

26. Thamnophis pulchrilatus (Yellow-Throated Garter Snake)

27. Thamnophis radix (Great Plains Garter Snake, Plains Garter Snake)

28. Thamnophis rossmani (Rossman's Garter Snake)

29. Thamnophis rufipunctatus (Narrow-Headed Garter Snake)

30. Thamnophis sauritus (Eastern Ribbon Snake)
T. s. nitae (Bluestripe ribbon snake)
T. s. sackenii (Peninsula ribbon snake)
T. s. sauritus (Eastern ribbon snake)
T. s. septentrionalis (Northern ribbon snake)

31. Thamnophis scalaris (Mexican Alpine Blotched Garter Snake, Longtail Alpine Garter Snake)

32. Thamnophis scaliger (Mesa Central Blotched Garter Snake, Short-tail Alpine Garter Snake)

33. Thamnophis sirtalis (Common Garter Snake)
T. s. annectens (Texas garter snake)
T. s. concinnus (Red-spotted garter snake)
T. s. dorsalis (New Mexico garter snake)
T. s. fitchi (Valley garter snake)
T. s. infernalis (California red-sided garter snake)
T. s. pallidulus (Maritime garter snake)
T. s. parietalis (Red-sided garter snake)
T. s. pickeringii (Puget Sound garter snake)
T. s. semifasciatus (Chicago garter snake)
T. s. similis (Blue-striped garter snake)
T. s. sirtalis (Eastern garter snake)
T. s. tetrataenia (San Francisco garter snake)

34. Thamnophis sumichrasti (Sumichrast's Garter Snake)

35. Thamnophis validus (Mexican Pacific Lowlands Garter Snake)
T. v. celaeno
T. v. isabelleae
T. v. thamnophisoides
T. v. validus

[chris-uk]

Be picky all day long for me :) would much rather have straight talking.
Much appreciated :)

My pleasure. I think what I didn't say, is that with garters when you're looking for a new snake you have the initial choice as to which species you want to look at, and for some species there are a number of morphs available if the wild colours don't float your boat.


And thanks Steve. I knew someone with more time on their hands would update my guess of around 60 species. :)

[Stefan-A]

Or, to simply look at the number of possibilities (subspecies + species without subspecies), 76 or 77 taxa.

[Ruth]

Hello and welcome. Im in the uk too and have three Obscurus, I bet they are siblings )

[BUSHSNAKE]

Hey Chris,

35 species with 52 subspecies.

1. Thamnophis angustirostris (Longnose Garter Snake)

2. Thamnophis atratus (Pacific Coast Aquatic Garter Snake)
T. a. atratus (Santa Cruz garter snake)
T. a. hydrophilus (Oregon garter snake)
T. a. zaxanthus (Diablo Range garter snake)

3. Thamnophis bogerti (Bogert's Garter Snake)

4. Thamnophis brachystoma (Short-Headed Garter Snake)

5. Thamnophis butleri (Butler's Garter Snake)

6. Thamnophis chrysocephalus (Golden-Headed Garter Snake)

7. Thamnophis conanti (Conant's Garter Snake)

8. Thamnophis couchii (Sierra Garter Snake)

9. Thamnophis cyrtopsis (Black-Necked Garter Snake)
T. c. collaris (Tropical blackneck garter snake)
T. c. cyrtopsis (Western blackneck garter snake)
T. c. ocellatus (Eastern blackneck garter snake)

10. Thamnophis elegans (Western Terrestial Garter Snake)
T. e. elegans (Mountain garter snake)
T. e. terrestris (Coast garter snake)
T. e. vagrans (Wandering garter snake)

11. Thamnophis eques (Mexican Garter Snake)
T. e. eques (Mexican garter snake)
T. e, carmenensis
T. e. cuitzeoensis
T. e. diluvialis
T. e. insperatus
T. e. obscurus
T. e. patzcuaroensis
T. e. scotti
T. e. megalops (Northern Mexican garter snake)
T. e. virgatenuis

12. Thamnophis errans (Mexican Wandering Garter Snake)

13. Thamnophis exsul (Exiled Garter Snake)

14. Thamnophis fulvus (Mesoamerican Highlands Garter Snake)

15. Thamnophis gigas (Giant Garter Snake)

16. Thamnophis godmani (Godman's Garter Snake)

17. Thamnophis hammondii (Two-Striped Garter Snake)

18. Thamnophis lineri (Liner's Garter Snake)

19. Thamnophis marcianus (Checkered Garter Snake)
T. m. bovallii
T. m. marcianus
T. m. praeocularis

20. Thamnophis melanogaster (Mexican Black-Bellied Garter Snake)
T. m. canescens (Gray blackbelly garter snake)
T. m. chihuahuaensis (Chihuahuan blackbelly garter snake)
T. m. linearis (Lined blackbelly garter snake)
T. m. melanogaster (Mexican blackbelly garter snake)

21. Thamnophis mendax (Tamaulipan Montane Garter Snake)

22. Thamnophis nigronuchalis (Southern Durango Spotted Garter Snake)

23. Thamnophis ordinoides (Northwestern Garter Snake)

24. Thamnophis postremus (Tepalcatepec Valley Garter Snake)

25. Thamnophis proximus (Western Ribbon Snake)
T. p. alpinus (Chiapas Highland ribbon snake)
T. p. diabolicus (Aridland ribbon snake)
T. p. orarius (Gulf coast ribbon snake)
T. p. proximus (Western ribbon snake)
T. p. rubrilineatus (Redstripe ribbon snake)
T. p. rutiloris (Mexican ribbon snake)

26. Thamnophis pulchrilatus (Yellow-Throated Garter Snake)

27. Thamnophis radix (Great Plains Garter Snake, Plains Garter Snake)

28. Thamnophis rossmani (Rossman's Garter Snake)

29. Thamnophis rufipunctatus (Narrow-Headed Garter Snake)

30. Thamnophis sauritus (Eastern Ribbon Snake)
T. s. nitae (Bluestripe ribbon snake)
T. s. sackenii (Peninsula ribbon snake)
T. s. sauritus (Eastern ribbon snake)
T. s. septentrionalis (Northern ribbon snake)

31. Thamnophis scalaris (Mexican Alpine Blotched Garter Snake, Longtail Alpine Garter Snake)

32. Thamnophis scaliger (Mesa Central Blotched Garter Snake, Short-tail Alpine Garter Snake)

33. Thamnophis sirtalis (Common Garter Snake)
T. s. annectens (Texas garter snake)
T. s. concinnus (Red-spotted garter snake)
T. s. dorsalis (New Mexico garter snake)
T. s. fitchi (Valley garter snake)
T. s. infernalis (California red-sided garter snake)
T. s. pallidulus (Maritime garter snake)
T. s. parietalis (Red-sided garter snake)
T. s. pickeringii (Puget Sound garter snake)
T. s. semifasciatus (Chicago garter snake)
T. s. similis (Blue-striped garter snake)
T. s. sirtalis (Eastern garter snake)
T. s. tetrataenia (San Francisco garter snake)

34. Thamnophis sumichrasti (Sumichrast's Garter Snake)

35. Thamnophis validus (Mexican Pacific Lowlands Garter Snake)
T. v. celaeno
T. v. isabelleae
T. v. thamnophisoides
T. v. validus
i believe there is 11 subspecies of the mexican garter snake and the narrow headed garter was split into 2.

[guidofatherof5]

Where did you see/get that info. Joe? Can you give us a link?

[guidofatherof5]

Where did you see/get that info. Joe? Can you give us a link?

Found this on the subject. Guess we'll have to see if the I.C.Z.N. (International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature) approves the change.

New Study Splits Off Mexican Narrow-headed Garters into New Species - Gartersnake.info (http://www.gartersnake.info/news/2013/new-study-splits-off-mexican-n.php)

[BUSHSNAKE]

Found this on the subject. Guess we'll have to see if the I.C.Z.N. (International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature) approves the change.

New Study Splits Off Mexican Narrow-headed Garters into New Species - Gartersnake.info (http://www.gartersnake.info/news/2013/new-study-splits-off-mexican-n.php)
Steven Bol described a new eques subspecies, its probably not valid yet but its there...it is different