Cannibal T.radix

[guidofatherof5]

I have on the Ranch a cannibal female T.radix. I first found a small snake dead in her enclosure. It was obvious it had been regurgitated. I thought at first it was a feeding accident but that soon changed. Last week I walked by the same enclosure and saw one of the snakes pooping out another snake. I placed her in a warm shed box to help her pass it and she escaped after passing the other snake.
While forum guests were visiting, my dog Lucy found this strange radix. Kelsey(visitor) suggested the name Hannibal which I thought was great. Then Stefan made the suggestion Hannibelle. So Hannibelle it is.
I've never had anything like this happen with my radixes.
I will have to keep her separate unless she is in with much larger snakes.

[Selkielass]

Interesting.
I guess vagrans aren't the only ones then.

[ChareiHeals]

Hannibelle. I like it!
(I'm Kelsey, by the way, lol)

[d_virginiana]

That's sort of sad; I shouldn't be laughing at the name! lol

Weird though.

[guidofatherof5]

I've had feeding accidents but never outright cannibalism which is what this is.
She will start counseling this week with the Ranch Thamnophis Board Certified psychologists.
She's a very troubled radix and worthy of a second chance:D

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/cannibelle.jpg

[Invisible Snake]

How big is she?

[guidofatherof5]

As big around as a pinky finger.

[rickymar81]

I've had feeding accidents but never outright cannibalism which is what this is.
She will start counseling this week with the Ranch Thamnophis Board Certified psychologists.
She's a very troubled radix and worthy of a second chance:D

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/cannibelle.jpg

LOL That's to funny. Hopefully she finds the error of her ways:D

[chris-uk]

Put her in with Enforcer et al, with the message "eat these girls if you dare".

But seriously, it's interesting to read about a confirmed case of cannibalism, especially in a radix.

[ConcinusMan]

Hmmm... it would interesting if there was a way to know exactly what is motivating this abnormal behavior.

[Foxrun402]

Hmmmm Maybe she likes solitude and being alone? This is what I am scared of with Suzi... Praying that she hasn't become adapt to being alone so much that she attacks other as if they are invading in here territory. Hopefully yours comes along well though Steve, she is a beauty =)

[guidofatherof5]

This certainly is a strange situation for this girl. I don't think you have much to worry about with yours.

[ConcinusMan]

Hmmmm Maybe she likes solitude and being alone?

That does occasionally happen but with the exception of T. elegans, the normal reaction for a garter would be a bit of social stress resulting in constantly trying to escape, nose rubbing, poor feeding, etc., not cannibalism. And even then, it's not necessarily being with others that's the problem. It's usually certain individuals not tolerating certain specific other individuals rather than not tolerating any company at all.


This is what I am scared of with Suzi... Praying that she hasn't become adapt to being alone so much that she attacks other as if they are invading in her territory.

Not likely. Aggression, cannibalism, social stress, etc. at times other than feeding time is uncommon to extremely rare and the odds of it happening go up slightly only if they're way overcrowded and have to compete for basking spots, hides, etc. Garters are not territorial in the slightest and some suggest they're even social and seek out company but I wouldn't go so far as to say that. I think they're rather indifferent to the presence of other garters for the most part.

That's what makes this situation so puzzling. It is definitely aberrant behavior. Nothing normal about it. Snake probably has some mental or genetic abnormality that makes something go wrong so that other garters illicit a feeding response. Studies have determined that the type of items (by smell though) that garters recognize as food is genetically linked. They initially investigate just about anything that moves and is smaller than themselves. However, if it doesn't smell right according to their genetic "programming" it won't illicit a feeding response. For example, it doesn't matter how good food looks to us, if it smells like rotting flesh or feces we're not likely to eat it. Similarly, a garter is not going to try to eat a fake frog, no matter how realistic it looks. It has to smell right and garters will try to eat anything that smells like food, even each other.

Maybe he's got a tumor or something affecting the olfactory nerves/brain? :confused: It's been known to happen. I've smelled and/or tasted colors before, simply by looking at them. For example, smelling and/or tasting grape by looking at a purple object.

[guidofatherof5]

Put her in with Enforcer et al, with the message "eat these girls if you dare".

But seriously, it's interesting to read about a confirmed case of cannibalism, especially in a radix.


She's living alone for now and eating everyday.
Chris has the right idea in that she will be living with much larger girls soon.
Hoping she will stay on the smaller size as I would worry about her as a large adult female.

[Didymus20X6]

http://img.ehowcdn.com/article-new/ds-photo/218/90/fotolia_8239625_XS.jpg
http://www.wineintro.com/products/bottles/chianti-melini.jpg

[-MARWOLAETH-]

I was unaware there was a correlation between broad beans,wine and a radix.

What is it?

[guidofatherof5]

This should help. It was nicely played.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVlkZVAw8Gc

[guidofatherof5]

Here are a couple photos of Hannibelle. Looks like I might need to remove a couple retained shed scales on her nose.
Her therapist is still unable to give me any insight as to her behavior but he assures me he will find out what is troubling this fine radix.:D


http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/hannibelle.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/hannibelle1.jpg

[chris-uk]

You need to cut down on the Chianti and fava beans you feed Hannibelle.

[guidofatherof5]

Hannibelle refuses to associate with her roommate Lucky2 (Florida Blue). She is camped out in the vines instead of the hide. When she was by herself she lived in the warm hide. The warm hide is occupied and she refused to go in. This girl has some real issues. She not very sociable which is un-radix like.
All kidding aside this is a troubled snake.:(

[guidofatherof5]

Hannibelle still refuses to associate with Lucky2 and eats in the vines. I'll probably move Hannibelle to a single paddock if things don't improve.
An anti-social radix, well I never!

[guidofatherof5]

Hannibelle is finally down in the hide with Lucky2. They both enjoyed a few pinkies last night.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//755/medium/together1.jpg

[Foxrun402]

Well that's good news! Hopefully the stay social and become good friends! They look good together, I'm glad that Lucky2 is doing good and possibly has a new friend now :D

[guidofatherof5]

Well that's good news! Hopefully the stay social and become good friends! They look good together, I'm glad that Lucky2 is doing good and possibly has a new friend now :D

Lucky 2 will probably sleep with one eye open................wait, never mind.:D

[guidofatherof5]

I just fed Hannibelle and Lucky 2 some pinkies. Lucky 2 was finishing her 3rd when she came out of the hide. Hannibelle followed her out and after swallowing her first pinky she proceeded to bite at Lucky 2's body as it moved along. When Lucky 2 turned to see what was going on she was met with a strike to the face. As I moved in to make sure that crap was over I was met with repeated strikes to my hand. Hannibelle was going crazy. I have never seen a radix react like this.
After a few minutes of this she went into her hide, as she did I touched her tail. She was back out launching herself at my hand and then me. Open mouth shots. Coil and launch, coil and launch.
Wow, this is the most aggressive radix I've ever seen and it's a female.
This is one disturbed radix.:(

[Lowfur]

Wonder what her deal is? Maybe she's just unsocial. I thought they were doing pretty well together though

[guidofatherof5]

This is more then being antisocial. In my opinion.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Could it just be her appetite/feeding response? I have had snakes that would bite anything that moved if they got a scent of food.
This is more then being antisocial. In my opinion.

[Sonya610]

This is more then being antisocial. In my opinion.

Well she does sound disturbed but has she ever done this when food was NOT involved?

If she was in her own enclosure and fed with a dish do you think it would be a problem?

[guidofatherof5]

No, but there is no stimuli to cause a problem either;)

[Sonya610]

No, but there is no stimuli to cause a problem either;)

So the "quirk" can be managed then. She may be crazy -- genetic neurological issue, brain tumor, whatever, but it can be managed. :)

[chris-uk]

She's one mental radix. Are you thinking now that her unlucky victims were just the wrong size in the wrong place at the wrong time? She didn't actively seek the victims but it was just an extreme feeding accident?

There sounds to be something that isn't wired up right in her brain. Has she gone for inanimate objects too?

[guidofatherof5]

I just don't know Chris. What I do know is she can't be trusted around any snakes remotely her size. I think it will be best for all parties involved if this girl lives alone.
Lucky 2 is moving back in with her T.s.concinnus girlfriends today so that will solve that problem.

[Greg'sGarters]

Wow, never heard of a cannibalistic garter before, very interesting. I suppose it could happen if one garter was bigger than the other, and the small one smelled like worm slime. :D

[guidofatherof5]

Or if the snake in question is a nut job.:D

[BUSHSNAKE]

i saw an article on sirtalis sirtalis that ate its cage mate and i saw one of my mountain garters try to eat its sister

[guidofatherof5]

Well Chris, she's in with Enforcer and the rest of that group. I'll see how she behaves with them.

[Mommy2many]

Sounds like she needs a residential placement. With alot of counseling. I have alot of experience in that. Maybe you should send her here. :)

[guidofatherof5]

Sounds like she needs a residential placement. With alot of counseling. I have alot of experience in that. Maybe you should send her here. :)

I will keep that in mind.;) Nice to see you on the forum.

[guidofatherof5]

When I entered Enforcer's paddock this morning I was looking for Hannibelle to see how she was getting along with her much, much larger roommates. She was in the heated hide with most of her new buddies. Once the others realized I was there they vacated the hide and came to me. Of course I was prepared for this and had a few worms handy for the occasion. Tourette and Enforcer were pushing their weight around, keeping some of the smaller snakes from getting to my hand where the worm was. It was then I noticed Hannibelle coming out to me. I wasn't the only one who noticed her coming out. Enforcer saw too and bolted to the hide entrance forcing Hannibelle back into the hide. Hannibelle didn't try to fight with her and stayed in the hide. I did get her a couple pieces of worm and she gladly took them. During this time she showed no signs of bad behavior. She even had a worried/cautious look in her eyes.
I think this is a good situation for Hannibelle as she get to see how calm, relaxed radixes behave even during feeding time.
I think only good can come from moving her to this enclosure. She certainly can't eat any of them.:D

[Lowfur]

Sounds like Enforcer will be a good role model for her! Hope we keep hearing positive updates on Hanibelle

[chris-uk]

Nobody puts Hannibelle in a corner. Except maybe the Enforcer.

Nice move Steve.

[guidofatherof5]

Nobody puts Hannibelle in a corner. Except maybe the Enforcer.

Nice move Steve.

Nice one, Chris. :D

[guidofatherof5]

Hannibelle came out with the other snakes for a snack last light. She wasn't crazy or out of control and she did go after any of her roommates. It seems good role-modeling works on snakes too. I think it's still to early to call her a changed snake but things are looking better.

[guidofatherof5]

Here's Hannibelle hanging out with Tourette in the paddock annex. I opened an extra 3 feet to this group. They now have a 9 foot paddock to explore.
Hannibelle seem to be doing very well with this group of girls. I haven't seen any bad behavior..........yet.:D

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//821/medium/Hannibelle_11.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//821/medium/tourette_and_Hannibelle.jpg

[chris-uk]

They now have a 9 foot paddock to explore

Wow!

I was thinking of building something bigger, looks like I need to go 200cm to keep up with the Joneses.

[guidofatherof5]

*Breaking News*

As I got into Enforcer's paddock Hannibelle came out to me and requested some food. She behaved like a lady during the whole encounter. Things are looking better for her.

[guidofatherof5]

It happened again. Hannibelle came out with the big girls and requested breakfast. She got it and behaved like the young lady she is.

[chris-uk]

Looks like the Enforcer has taught her some manners. That and being with bigger girls means she doesn't have the opportunity to eat her tank mates. :) You still wouldn't trust her with anyone smaller would you?

[guidofatherof5]

Looks like the Enforcer has taught her some manners. That and being with bigger girls means she doesn't have the opportunity to eat her tank mates. :) You still wouldn't trust her with anyone smaller would you?

Not on their lives. Putting a snake/s in jeopardy to see if it's safe isn't going to happen. I don't think Hannibelle will grow to be a big girl so she will spend her time with larger cage mates.

[Sonya610]

It happened again. Hannibelle came out with the big girls and requested breakfast. She got it and behaved like the young lady she is.

Interesting. Perhaps Hannibelle is not just deranged but also sensitive to her surroundings. She seems to be doing well and maybe she feels like she "fits in".

All of this talk about 6' and 9' paddocks has got me thinking too. Sheesh the nice 36" cages seemed large (2 years ago) and now I am thinking they are not large enough. I need at least a 6 footer for my precious sweet little flame male. Am surfing craiglist and so far all of the folks selling nice tanks with stands say "fish included". Huh? Uhhh....no...

[guidofatherof5]

Hannibelle seems to be doing great with this group. Maybe it's because she knows she'll get her butt kicked by Enforcer if she steps out of line. In any event I'm happy that she is socializing well with other snakes and me.

[Foxrun402]

Sweet! Hannibelle is a very pretty girl, glad she is getting along with them =D. I hope Suzi will be nice to Xena lol. This thread has me thinking about it a lot lol!

[guidofatherof5]

Hannibelle and Tourette were hanging out today. Hannibelle came out and took her food like a lady.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/h_and_t.jpg