Help in Brumating a Blackneck?

[d_virginiana]

I am currently taking care of a blackneck garter that has gone over three months without eating and is starting to drop weight. I want to try and snap him out of it with a short brumation, and hopefully he will eat afterward. Also want to try this before he loses so much weight he starts to get sickly, as he's still pretty healthy.

I've never brumated my snakes before, and I'm not overly familiar with blacknecks in particular... But I know they come from a more southern environment where winters are warmer. Can anyone on here who's brumated a blackneck before give me advice on temps and how long would be good?

[guidofatherof5]

I think Joe(BUSHSNAKE) has brumated some T. c. cyrtopsis (Western blackneck garter snake) before.

[-MARWOLAETH-]

I was told that southern species should be brumated at around 8-12C.

the snake probably hasnt lost weight, its just a bit dehydrated from not eating.

Before I put my little one in brumation ,she was pencil thin and I thought she was dying.When I stuck her in a box of wet leaves and a water bowl,within about a week she went back to her normal thickness :)

[chris-uk]

I'm sure Sjoerd won't mind me copy/pasting the information he sent me when I asked him for advice about my blacknecks a month or so back. This is what he told me about the annual cycle of the parents of my pair :



Even the cyrtopsis female is already eating (which is absolutely wow, since she usually eats about 3 or 4 months a year…).

Without actually being able to say what you should or shouldn’t do, some more info about my cyrtopsis.

Usually, the go into hibernative state somewhere around October. They stop eating (if they haven’t already) and start hiding (even more…). After some time of not feeding, cooling, preparing, etc, they are cooled to 2-12 degrees for two/three months (as you can tell, no real guidelines! When its cold, its cold…2 degrees, longer hibernation, when its not so cold outside their room warms up a bit to 8-12 degrees and I’m forced to shorten the hibernation). Somewhere early feb they leave hibernation and are instantly warmed up, like usual. The nights are still somewhat cool (12-15 degrees) and they refuse all types of food. Somewhere around March, the male starts eating like a pig… End april till end June, the female eats like there’s no tomorrow. Then, nothing but being a gravid pig…

End July they give birth and two weeks later, they start eating again for max 1.5 months. Then, hibernative state again and we can press rewind and play the same tape again.

They are VERY consistent in this!

[d_virginiana]

Will, you have a point. Would he still look dehydrated if he is drinking though? This snake is still up and very active, and I've seen him drinking and passing urates normally...

Chris; thanks for that! My father actually took the snake back today, as I have nowhere that I could keep him cold at constant temps. I'm guessing those temps are all Celsius, right?
The snake actually belongs to my dad (EKS) so I'll make sure he sees this thread.

In other news, the female that this little guy was being housed with seems to be gravid!

[EKS56]

Chris,
Seems as if these can be some very finicky eaters set to a pattern. Routinely going for long periods of time with out eating and then binge eat. Is this behavior pretty common for all garters or is this specific to Blacknecks? What you describe is a lot like what I'm looking at. The female is a good eater and may very well be gravid. The male seems healthy in every way except he's not eating. I'm hesitant about the brumation thinking he'll start eating at any time and all will be well. I got them as adults in January and the little male hasn't eat a bite. I'm not really crazy about chillin' him down for two months without food knowing he hasn't eat in three.

[d_virginiana]

I wouldn't think you should do it for two months necessarily. Does anyone have the link someone had up a couple months ago to a thread about 'snap brumating' non-eating baby San Frans?
I was thinking they only had theirs cooled down for about two or three weeks...

[chris-uk]

The quote I posted was from an email from Sjoerd (CrazyReptiles) who has been breeding T. cyrtopsis cyrtopsis for several years. I don't think this pattern is typical of all garter species, my blacknecks are the only ones that follow it.

The snap brumation stuff was in a thread that Fons posted about one of his tetrataenia. I'm on my way out else I'd have a quick search for it.

[d_virginiana]

I don't think that's necessarily a pattern for this one though... Apparently he was eating fine before being shipped, but he spent a very cold night in a shipping warehouse on the way to my dad's. I wonder if that somehow threw his schedule off?



The snap brumation stuff was in a thread that Fons posted about one of his tetrataenia. I'm on my way out else I'd have a quick search for it.

I'll see if I can find that then. I didn't remember who posted it or anything :P

[Stefan-A]

The quote I posted was from an email from Sjoerd (CrazyReptiles) who has been breeding T. cyrtopsis cyrtopsis for several years. I don't think this pattern is typical of all garter species, my blacknecks are the only ones that follow it.
It describes one of my wandering garters perfectly.

[Invisible Snake]

I wouldn't think you should do it for two months necessarily. Does anyone have the link someone had up a couple months ago to a thread about 'snap brumating' non-eating baby San Frans?
I was thinking they only had theirs cooled down for about two or three weeks...


I don't think that's necessarily a pattern for this one though... Apparently he was eating fine before being shipped, but he spent a very cold night in a shipping warehouse on the way to my dad's. I wonder if that somehow threw his schedule off?



I'll see if I can find that then. I didn't remember who posted it or anything :P

Here's the thread http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/breeding/10804-update-young-san-francisco-garter-snakes.html