This is odd...

[d_virginiana]

For those of you who didn't see the thread, my 2 year old female Harley had a retained shed probably two months ago. I got most of the scales off but she hasn't been 100% since.
Last night when I checked on her, I didn't noticed anything strange. Today, I picked her up and immediately noticed her skin was crinkling in very strange ways and little pieces of dried skin were sticking up, and most of her scales were not laying flat. Also, the scales on her face and tail that I was not able to remove when I was assisting with the shed look like they are flaking off (revealing very healthy scales, as opposed to the shriveled/wrinkled scales that are on most of the body since I removed the old shed). She has also been rubbing her face all over things as if she's about to shed again.
The damaged scales also seem to have hardened up a lot over the last few days. They are still very dull and have no shine though.

She's not acting like she feels worse. Still tongue-flicking, moving around a lot when I pick her up, seems very strong and not having issues with flexibility. Not eating as much as normal, but not refusing food either. Probably has been eating about 5 silversides a week, and everything seems to be passing through just fine.

Do you think that her body may be trying to shed again early to get her skin back to normal? The 'raised' scales and flakiness along the body looks like it's coming from between the scales (which would make sense considering most of what I could get off were the scales, but not the connective skin between them).
Do you think it would be good to put her in another enclosure with lots of moist paper towels and things to rub against for a bit? If all that's coming off are the random scales and skin bits that did not get removed during the assisted shed, I'm worried she won't be able to get enough traction to pull them off in her normal tank...
Any suggestions for anything else I could do or thoughts on what's going on?

I would put up pictures, but there was a camera malfunction earlier today.

[chris-uk]

Possibly just loosing the bits of skin you weren't able to get off her, as you suggested. A bit of elevated moisture can't hurt can it?

[guidofatherof5]

Garters/snake in general go into spontaneous sheds in response to injuries and parasites. She could be doing that right now.

As Chris said, a little added moisture probably couldn't hurt.
Keep us posted.

[d_virginiana]

She looked much better after soaking tonight, so I'm hopeful that she's just doing an 'emergency shed'...

[guidofatherof5]

Good update. Thanks.

[d_virginiana]

Today she looks MUCH better than she has since this whole thing began. Even my husband was able to notice a difference just by glancing at her (he doesn't spend as much time around them as I do).
As of now, I'm going to say that this was almost definitely an 'emergency shed'. I'll update if anything changes, but I'm hoping it doesn't :) Wish my camera hadn't been having problems yesterday, because the difference is really a 180.

[ConcinusMan]

She looked much better after soaking tonight

They usually do, but unless a shed has taken place then it just looks better.

[d_virginiana]

They usually do, but unless a shed has taken place then it just looks better.

This is a bit of an odd situation... After I removed the retained shed almost two months ago now, the skin was severely damaged underneath. It doesn't have the hard 'gloss' on it that their scales should have, and she seems to get dehydrated very quickly (I think because of the skin currently lacking that protective layer). It constantly wrinkles and folds in odd ways because of being so soft at the moment too.
I can tell she still doesn't feel great, but she's improved since the initial removal of the shed, and she is also eating but still nowhere near as much as normal. Also seems alert and strong...

I probably won't stop worrying about it until she has her next shed...

[ConcinusMan]

This is a bit of an odd situation... After I removed the retained shed almost two months ago now, the skin was severely damaged underneath.

That sounds like it was taken off too early or too late, after it had already become fused to the old skin. Probably the latter.

These shedding problems sound very serious, even life threatening. The wrinkling you're describing indicates a critical situation. It happens when the skin is too small and is causing strangulation. watch for "gaping" (opening the mouth to take a breath) if you see that then you're probably going to lose her. I hope it doesn't come to that but this doesn't sound very good at all.

Keep meals very small at this point. No bulging. Big meals are only going to make the skin even tighter. Eating and acting normal at this point is a lousy indicator of her health/prognosis. They usually do eat and seem just fine, right up until you find them upside-down one day.:(

[d_virginiana]

This is going to be long; sorry:

It's been over two months and other than acting like her face is itchy (the face scales, and some below the vent are the only scales I didn't remove; I took her to a specialist and he recommended leaving them on since the body and belly scales had all been removed. He seemed to think she would be fine...) and rubbing her mouth on things, she hasn't been gaping at all.

I always thought the wrinkling meant that the old skin was restricting them? It's almost like it's the opposite... Her skin is much softer (if drier) than normal, and was so soft right after the shed was removed that she felt like a scaleless snake. The wrinkling I'm talking about is caused when she bends her body, some of the individual scales will actually look like they are folding in two. There is some slight lateral wrinkling, but it's more like you can take it and push it up, like loose skin on a snake that is too thin... How can she be being restricted if the shed is removed?

I noticed her tongue 'shed', but then after boosted humidity, soaking, and shed boxes, she still hadn't shed despite attempting to quite often, so I ended up doing an assisted shed when it got a distinctly unhealthy feel to it (about a week after the tongue shed). That doesn't seem like it should be too late? Is it? I always thought the shed had to be retained for longer to become fused...
Though it wouldn't start at the mouth or vent, so it had to be removed bit by bit. It didn't seem to be 'fused' to the new scales, but definitely could have caused physical damage to the scales underneath. Additionally, I used a small amount of vegetable oil to get the pieces off. I washed it off, but I believe now that it may have gotten under some of the scales and damaged the skin, and will never be trying that again...
Of course, I've never dealt with a retained she before, so I don't really know what it feels like when it has fused.

Thing is, she isn't eating or acting 'normally'. She is very alert, and eating a small meal about once every week and a half (like one pinkie and one silverside), but I can tell she's not 100% normal. She has been drinking a lot more than normal though, which means she must be dehydrated; my guess is through the damaged/softened skin (the vet checked for kidney problems and didn't notice any, but recommended not drawing blood unless things got much worse). Additionally, even though she is still very strong and the scales have hardened somewhat, the belly scales are soft enough that she still moves more slowly than she otherwise would.

Am I wrong in my reasoning here? I've never dealt with something like this before.

[guidofatherof5]

This is a difficult situation as none of us can see or feel the problem. Photos are good but can't replace hands-on observations.
Taking in any food is a good sign and her drinking is important.
I think the next shed is going to answer a lot of questions. I would give her as much hands off time as possible(keeping the stress low) and play the wait and see game. You've got a Vet. involved so some professional advice is available.
My Vet. usually doesn't recommend blood being drawn since garters are so small and it requires a large sample.
Our thoughts and prayers are with you.
Keep us posted.

[Selkielass]

I've seen odd emergency sheds on a couple cat injured garters I've assisted, and they can look really odd, patchy and yes, even fish net like when the keels had seemingly been worn away.

With wild injuries, I've unfortunately found d that a less is more strategy is best. More contact= more stress and slower healing. I only go hands on with very obvious retained sheds, infections and accesses. Anything more than a minute or so of 'help' ends up being so stressful its a hindrance.

Give her as many choices in humidity and temperature gradient as you can. Help her to easily fi d her comfort zone.
Feed wet foods. Gut load.
Rub your fingers with vitamin e oil before you handle her. Don't get her oily, but I have found the oils help scarred and tender tissues to heal, just as they do with mammals.

Continue to watch her behavior and body language. They can't tell us what's wrong, but if we watch carefully we can sometimes see what they need/want more of.

[d_virginiana]

I've only been actually handling her once a day, mainly because I feel like that's the only way I'd notice if she was getting worse, but I try to be pretty quick with that. Other than that, I will move her to her water to soak a couple times a day, as that seems to help the skin (not just immediately, but like for the rest of the day) and she almost always drinks when I do.

For food, it's mainly been whatever she'll take. Mostly fish, which I guess is good since they are so oily?

Steve; you're right. I've tried to take photos of this, but they really don't show much.

The thing that keeps me hopeful is that a lot of her problems right now can be traced back to the trauma of the shed being removed, rather than lasting damage from when it was retained. I may be wrong, but I feel like that has more of a chance to heal than a retained shed would? That, and there have been really big improvements since this started, as well as that odd partial shed when a lot of the remaining flakes came off.
It's been about two months, so she should be shedding again here in another month or so. If there seem to be any complications with that, I'm just going to bring her in to the vet immediately.

[d_virginiana]

Good news update on Harley: When I picked her up today to check on her, I noticed that the 'gloss' is slowly starting to reappear on many of her scales. She's also more 'sturdy' feeling, and less sensitive when being held. She just got the first de-worming treatment on Monday; it's really amazing how quickly this is working after months of almost no improvement.

[Selkielass]

Terrific!!
Fish sounds like an excellent food, especially the oilier safe fish like salmon. There's tons of lore on the net about how good fish oil is for joints, skin and hair.
Chicken liver might be good too, as its rich in vitamins oil, iron and is still easily digested.
My snakes like liver almost as much as fresh backyard worms, buts its a rare treat since oil based vitamins can build up to toxic levels if overdone.