Will live conifers cause a problem?

[-MARWOLAETH-]

I'm toying with the idea of putting Juniper shrubs (most likely an adult so it doesn't have spiky needles) in my with my marcianus to give her something to climb on and to fit in with the vivs semi arid grassland theme.

Before I add some -Do live conifer trees effect animals the same way as chopped Coniferous wood does?

[guidofatherof5]

Good question.

[Stefan-A]

What sort of juniper?

[Selkielass]

Plenty of junipers, pines and cedars in my area- snakes don't seem to mind them at all.
In a restricted space tho... who knows?

[-MARWOLAETH-]

What sort of juniper?
Probably Chinese juniper (J.chinensis) it seems the most readily available.

[Stefan-A]

I see. I figured it couldn't be J. communis, because that one stays spiky. It probably wouldn't do well in enclosures, either.

[ConcinusMan]

I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere that it's gasses in an enclosed space, and direct contact with oils coming from the shavings that cause the problems. I would think that would be less of a problem with a live juniper in an enclosure. :confused: It's not like they're going to be wallowing in the oils and a live tree is going to emit mainly oxygen I would think. If you don't cut into the tree and/or grind it up I don't think it's likely to cause problems.

[-MARWOLAETH-]

:eek:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJTc2o3nNF4

:p

[ConcinusMan]

Probably starved for water and half dead. Very difficult to burn a live juniper around here. When they're dead or starved for water that's another matter. Yes, the sap/resin in just about any tree is highly flammable but the water content usually gets in the way.

[Spankenstyne]

http://www.mfc.ms.gov/pdf/Firewise/Shrub_Flammability_insert_Fall%202007.pdf

I would say to avoid it for apparant flammability reasons, especially in an enclosed space with a heat source (snake enclosure). I honestly didn't realize that certain shrubs could be so much more flammable than others while still living, unless they were very dry. I also assumed like Richard stated that the water content would prevent most of that but apparently not.

[-MARWOLAETH-]

I don't think there's much risk of fire with the method of using flourescant tubes as light and heat because the bulbs only get up to around 35C 8Cm away from the bulbs.

[KephrenJorgensen]

After following this, I've been wondering if I'd be able to use scottish brum in my new enclosure. I doubt there'd be much fire risk as the enclosure is 32 inches tall and I would plan on planting them almost horizontally in stacks to create basking/climbing areas. I've seen this stuff grow nearly upside down, and it is EVERYWHERE here.

[KephrenJorgensen]

Cytisus scoparius

[d_virginiana]

Hmm... I somehow just now saw this thread!
Off the top of my head, I don't think a living one would cause the serious issues that the chopped wood/shavings do, but I personally wouldn't risk it. Without knowing exactly how each specific species functions, you don't know where the essential oils (the toxic stuff) are produced. Like, just in stems, or also in leaves? Because if any are produced in leaves (I'd hazard a guess that they are, just since juniper leaves tend to smell strongly) then whenever any of the little leaves shed/died/broke off you'd have the same issue as with chopped wood.
Also, without knowing the specifics, it's possible that some of those oils are produced ON the leaves themselves or are present in the cuticle wax and could cause irritation if the snake climbed on them.
None of this would be a problem for a short period, but like someone else said it's different in an enclosed space where the snake is always around it.

I'm working on a plant anatomy assignment right now, so writing about plants doesn't make me feel like I'm slacking!

[Ruth]

I would avoid them as the sap seems to be irritating to quite a few people especially those with sensitive skin. As snakes are much more sensitive than us absorbing things easily though their skin I wouldn't risk it.

[-MARWOLAETH-]

Hmm... I somehow just now saw this thread!
Off the top of my head, I don't think a living one would cause the serious issues that the chopped wood/shavings do, but I personally wouldn't risk it. Without knowing exactly how each specific species functions, you don't know where the essential oils (the toxic stuff) are produced. Like, just in stems, or also in leaves? Because if any are produced in leaves (I'd hazard a guess that they are, just since juniper leaves tend to smell strongly) then whenever any of the little leaves shed/died/broke off you'd have the same issue as with chopped wood.
Also, without knowing the specifics, it's possible that some of those oils are produced ON the leaves themselves or are present in the cuticle wax and could cause irritation if the snake climbed on them.
None of this would be a problem for a short period, but like someone else said it's different in an enclosed space where the snake is always around it.

I'm working on a plant anatomy assignment right now, so writing about plants doesn't make me feel like I'm slacking!Nice one! Thanks for the heads up:)

I could probably get the same effect I'm after with some Heather or Olive (they probably do better in the terrarium anyway):rolleyes:

[Selkielass]

I was considering trying some creeping thyme this spring. I have some interesting old specimens in my garden and thymol is a mite repellent.

[ConcinusMan]

As snakes are much more sensitive than us absorbing things easily though their skin I wouldn't risk it.

Actually their skin is a much better barrier than our own. It's practically water-tight. It's not the skin contact that matters much here anyway. If there's going to be a problem, it's going to be through the respiratory system.

I look at it this way; why even try it. There's plenty of alternatives to using a potentially harmful plant in an enclosure.

[thamneil]

While I do not have too much to say in regards to this issue, I will say the following. The majority of the reptiles(skinks, rough green snakes, plains garters) that I have caught in western Manitoba were found in juniper. The foliage provides a very secure cover for these little critters. I would be fairly certain that skin contact with juniper would not be an issue. Respiratory problems could be a issue depending on the situation. Keep in mind, I have seen colubrids kept on pine for years without any apparent effects. Not saying it it is correct to do so though.

[d_virginiana]

I would be worried about the fact that it's in an enclosed space... In the wild, if they do begin to experience respiratory/skin/whatever irritation they can just move somewhere new, but in a tank everything is kind of concentrated in one area and the snake can't get away if it needs to.

idk, I tend to think plants of any sort are too much trouble to deal with in my reptiles' cages. There are plenty of species that are definitely safe that could be put in instead, so I'd just see no reason to take the risk. I think you're probably right about it being a fairly small risk though.

[chris-uk]

I would have thought heather would be a low risk and would thrive in a viv. If you consider our native herps they are often found in areas with lots of heather, and thamnophis aren't so far removed from natrix.

[-MARWOLAETH-]

Genious, Chris. I was originally thinking or semi arid grassland but I'll definitely give a heathland viv a try instead:)

Luckily,I live near salt marsh and heathland so most of the plants that grow in Adder and grass snake habitat grow in the garden naturally:D

I'll have to experiment to see which plants do best indoors.

[Ruth]

I think a heather heathland would be amazing. Hope you share pictures when you've finished.