170 gallons-1 snake

[KephrenJorgensen]

So I went all out and made a vivarium for my one adult garter. She is 21 inches long, and the dimensions of the viv (on the inside) are 38.5" x 37.5" x 31". She is obviously going to have a ridiculous amount of room. I'm just wondering how many more snakes I could house in their with her. I was thinking of getting a couple more wild caught females to put in with her. I would quarantine them for about a month first to help ensure they are healthy and safe. From a lot of reading it seems that keeping male and female garters together really depends on size, intention to breed, personal preference, and being a vagrans or not. If I find any high-erythristic males I may consider them for the beautiful contrast between the melanistic and erythristic ordinoides.

[guidofatherof5]

I would think 4 or 5 that size would be good.
If I may also, that 30 quarantine seems short. I would think 60 days would be the shortest time needed. I use 90 days unless I suspect something then I add 30 more days.
Just my opinion.

[KephrenJorgensen]

Okay. Thank you. I guess it would be best to quarantine them for as long as possible. You may have saved some lives :) Would it be safe to "quarantine them together"? Or would it be best to keep them all seperately. And when it comes to introductions, would it be best to do it all at once? Or with one snake at a time? I'd imagine it would be easiest if all the new additions were used to eachother before going in with the girl I've got now.

[gregmonsta]

Separate completely ... if even one has some nasties you could end up with quaranteen = infectanteen.

[KephrenJorgensen]

Okay. I'll have to make sure I've got enough availabe caging for seperate quarantines. Thanks :)

[ConcinusMan]

With something that large you could even add a small flowing water feature. As many people already said, the number of snakes you could put in there comfortably depends on many factors. In any case, you will need to keep an eye on the situation and watch for social stress. Garters aren't very prone to that, but it can happen. Sometimes certain garters will stress out (watch for nose-rubbing, constant obsessive rooting in substrate, trying to escape, etc.) when put with other snakes, sometimes it's just two particular snakes that don't like each other, etc. More than one basking area, plenty of hides, and visual barriers are helpful.

As far as introductions go, I've always just put groups together all at once. Then observe them over a couple of weeks. If nobody is stressing out, and they seem to be relaxed and comfortable then no worries. If you do see signs of stress, remove the ones that are stressing out and see how they do by themselves. I really don't think you'll have a problem putting 5-8 small-medium snakes in there. I've put that many in smaller tanks and they do just fine although it means more frequent cleaning and water/substrate changes.

[KephrenJorgensen]

So the enclosure is basically finished. All I need to do now is splice some wires, put the lights in, and seal it up. I need to find a way to close the gap between the plexi. Im thinking the best option is to screw a couple lengths of wood across the plexi. Basically a third track placed at the middle-heigt of the cage. I am sooo stoked for this to be fully finished. I'm debating putting marine silicone(I use it in a few enclosures, no emmissions) anywhere other than the ventilation/plexi that air gets in our out.

Sadly I am faced with a dilemma at this point. Once I complete this I will want to use it, but have no idea who I should put in here.
Right now it is between my two adult male pugets and my two adult female ordies. I have 3 adult vagrans right now aswell (1.1.1) and I would like to give them something special, but we all know how vagrans are. I don't want to risk stress, fights, breeding etc. The BIG female might be able to swallow one of the others, but she would be hard pressed, as they are only like 8 inches smaller than her. The other two are around the same size, and if I had to guess at gender I'd say both male, but I do believe one could be a female. At first I wanted to keep a group of 4 or so male ordies in there, but that entails more new additions and more quarantines that I dont have space for. If you were in my situation, who would you choose to give paradise to?

[guidofatherof5]

You forgot one thing.

The GPS tracking chip in the snake so you can find it.:D
Just kidding. Your snake will love it. lots of exploring can be done.

[chris-uk]

It sounds like a wonderland. You forgot something else... Photos or it doesn't exist. :)

Of the groups of garters you list, I'd put the male pickeringi in there. I wouldn't put the vagrans in, and I think I'm right to say that a male Puget will top out larger than the ordinoides. Eventually you can put a couple of male radix or infernalis through quarantine and in 3 months you should have room to pop them in there too. ;)

[KephrenJorgensen]

Thanks for the input. I will put the puget's in there. They are so interactive with eachother. Would fitchii or parietalis be ok to comingle with? Infernalis is probably the most difficult species to acquire for my self. Radix I could do, it'd just be a road trip.

Here's my 11 year old sister inside the unfinished "finished" product.

8921

[guidofatherof5]

Same sex and relative same size can live together. No mixed sexes.

[KephrenJorgensen]

A friend of mine offered to give me some manzanita for the enclosure too. Hopefully he still has some nice pieces to pick from.

[KephrenJorgensen]

Same sex and relative same size can live together

Would that go for vagrans too? I now have 4, and believe that 3 are male. On one of them, the tail is not the same width as the vent, it gets slightly smaller, but maintains that width for quite some length, which is what makes me think it is male.
I dont see any of them accomplishing the task of eating one another.

[guidofatherof5]

Didn't know you had vagrans. For that I would say no.

[KephrenJorgensen]

I have 1 blue baby. 3 adult males (I think) and a huge female. I've mentioned them before, and 2 were posted on my snake thread. I WILL post more pictures next week. I am working security at a local music festival this weekend and won't be around much.

[KephrenJorgensen]

just have to ground one light fixture and then purchase a 30" fluor. T8 and she's ready for action ;)

dimensions are 38x38x32 (l x w x h). The peanut butter jar gives somewhat of a size reference.
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[ConcinusMan]

I say you keep the kid in that and let the snakes roam the house. Probably safer lol

[KephrenJorgensen]

WOOOOOO! it is all set up. I just don't have all the lighting working at the moment. Still learning how to ground the lights. Just gotta get some more greenery too and it will be all I hoped.90209021902290239024 Here are pics of the snakes in it with the heat light on for the pics. And pics of my new females and male vagrans.

[KephrenJorgensen]

90259026902790289029Here's my 3 new ordies and vagrans.

[guidofatherof5]

Great looking snakes. Love the last one the most.

[KephrenJorgensen]

She is just beautiful. I saw her from what must have been 30 meters away. A very nice mix of the blood reds and the oranges

[KephrenJorgensen]

She is just beautiful. I saw her from what must have been 30 meters away. A very nice mix of the blood reds and the oranges

[KephrenJorgensen]

excuse my double post due to leaving my laptop on :P

[BUSHSNAKE]

90259026902790289029Here's my 3 new ordies and vagrans.
the melanistic ordinoides is rocking!

[KephrenJorgensen]

Im so glad to have her. My friends dad caught her for me from the garden I was asked to remove the snakes from while I was at school. He dropped it off for me on the weekend.