Hello

[Ruth]

I'm reasonably new to keeping snakes and totally new to using forums so you will have to excuse my inevitable slip ups :) I currently have six beautiful corns and an even more beautiful Garter (i'm as of yet not 100% sure what type she is). I absolutely adore her although she doesn't think so highly of me and would love to add other garters to my household.

[Stefan-A]

Welcome aboard.

[Invisible Snake]

Hello and welcome to the forum!

[snake man]

Hello and welcome.

[CrazyHedgehog]

hello, lets see a pic!!

[indigoman]

Welcome to the forum!

[-MARWOLAETH-]

Greetings from Swansea! Post some pics and we'll have a bash at ID-ing your snake :)

[guidofatherof5]

Nice to have you with us. Let us have a look at your garter and we'll try to ID it for you.
Here's a link to the forum care sheet. It's always a good read but feel free to ask any questions not covered.

Garter Snake Forum - Garter Caresheet (http://www.thamnophis.com/index.php?page=caresheet)

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//744/medium/welcome.jpg

[ravgez]

Welcome!

[Greg'sGarters]

Welcome To The Best Garter Snake Forum on Planet Earth!

[chris-uk]

Welcome from a snow splattered Coventry. Post up some pics and I'm sure you'll have an answer about the species pretty quickly.

[SilasBannook]

Great to have you on-board. Post pics and everyone here will gladly help you along.

[guidofatherof5]

I'm going to guess T.marcianus (Checkered garter snake):D

[chris-uk]

I'm going to guess T.marcianus (Checkered garter snake):D

If we're stabbing in the dark... I see your checkered garter snake, and raise you an albino checkered garter snake. ;)

[gregmonsta]

Greetings :D .... and I'll up the antee to a Unicorn ... ahem ... Northern garter.

[ProXimuS]

Hello and welcome:)

[Ruth]

The snake is the one pictured in my avatar but I will try and take some better photo's of her today. She moves quickly so not the easiest of subjects. I have been told by a chap that he thinks she is a Lake Chapala garter snake but I have come across another man who has Lake Cuitzio Garter snakes and his juv's look a lot like mine, to me any way. I bought her from a pet shop and the owner couldn't remember the name only that it had Lake in it and he couldn't pronounce it. He was told it was a rather rare type not too common amongst keeps. I fell in love with her squat size and beautiful big eyes as well as her colouring.

[Ruth]

Here she is. Excuse81808181 the rather odd backdrop I do a lot of sewing.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Welcome to the forum!

[guidofatherof5]

Well. It looks like Chris and I were wrong, not T.marcianus.
Not sure what it is yet. Any chance we can get a full body shot or two?

[Invisible Snake]

I am going to say she is a Lake Chapala garter snake. I'm no expert so I googled pictures to be sure.

iHerp : Online Reptile Software, Husbandry, Community, Tracking, Breeding, Snakes, and More! (http://iherp.com/Public/Animals/AnimalPhotoGallery.aspx?AnimalID=112423)

CB 11 Lake Chapala garter - Central American garter -First time available in the US - My Pet Forums (http://www.thamfriends.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2011)

[BLUESIRTALIS]

LOOKS LIKE A LAKE CHAPALA GARTER TO ME (Thamnophis eques obscurus)!

The snake is the one pictured in my avatar but I will try and take some better photo's of her today. She moves quickly so not the easiest of subjects. I have been told by a chap that he thinks she is a Lake Chapala garter snake but I have come across another man who has Lake Cuitzio Garter snakes and his juv's look a lot like mine, to me any way. I bought her from a pet shop and the owner couldn't remember the name only that it had Lake in it and he couldn't pronounce it. He was told it was a rather rare type not too common amongst keeps. I fell in love with her squat size and beautiful big eyes as well as her colouring.

[chris-uk]

I'd want to see another photo, but when I saw those two pics it made me think immediately of:

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//734/medium/CuitzeoBaby1_-_2h_old_preshed_on_waterbowl_2_-_resized_1024w_-_2485.JPG (http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/showphoto.php?photo=10755&title=cuitzeo-baby-1&cat=734)

Which is a shot of my baby Cuitzeo from last year. I'm hesitant because there aren't many Cuitzeos around, but I do know a breeding age pair were sold not a million miles from Cambridgeshire last year, and I don't have first-hand experience of baby Chapalas. There's also a few Lake Chapala Garters around, including someone who bred some over Essex or Norfolk part of the country. And going from the size in Ruth's photo, whatever T. equis species it is it isn't very old.



"I fell in love with her squat size and beautiful big eyes as well as her colouring."......
She won't stay squat for long. If she is female (I don't know how positive you are on it's sex) then she's one of the larger species. At 2.5 years-old my female Cuitzeo is now 380g and somewhere a little over 100cm.

Anyway, congratulations. You have great taste in garters, whether she's a Cuitzeo or a Chapala she is a gorgeous snake.



(BTW Steve.... looks like Greg was wrong as well :) )

[Ruth]

I will try and get a full body shot in a couple of days as she's just fed and I like to leave her be. She is only a babe and has been sexed by the shop owner he popped her (is that the term) when I choose her. I know she will grow reasonably large but she's still a squat snake compared to my slender corns. I love the shape of her and other garters, I also love how active she is.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Chris i agree that it looks very dark and could be a cuitzeoensis. I don't have any experience in these guys, but it looks like it has bluish lateral stripes. Is this trait also seen in cuitzeoensis?
i'd want to see another photo, but when i saw those two pics it made me think immediately of:

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//734/medium/cuitzeobaby1_-_2h_old_preshed_on_waterbowl_2_-_resized_1024w_-_2485.jpg (http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/showphoto.php?photo=10755&title=cuitzeo-baby-1&cat=734)

which is a shot of my baby cuitzeo from last year. I'm hesitant because there aren't many cuitzeos around, but i do know a breeding age pair were sold not a million miles from cambridgeshire last year, and i don't have first-hand experience of baby chapalas. There's also a few lake chapala garters around, including someone who bred some over essex or norfolk part of the country. And going from the size in ruth's photo, whatever t. Equis species it is it isn't very old.


[i]
she won't stay squat for long. If she is female (i don't know how positive you are on it's sex) then she's one of the larger species. At 2.5 years-old my female cuitzeo is now 380g and somewhere a little over 100cm.

Anyway, congratulations. You have great taste in garters, whether she's a cuitzeo or a chapala she is a gorgeous snake.



(btw steve.... Looks like greg was wrong as well :) )

[Ruth]

Chris i agree that it looks very dark and could be a cuitzeoensis. I don't have any experience in these guys, but it looks like it has bluish lateral stripes. Is this trait also seen in cuitzeoensis?

I'm sorry if this goes wrong but it's the first time I've used a forum and don't know how to include the quotes etc. She doesn't have any yellow like the Cuitzeonoensis pictured above and she has a paler brown dorsil line runing down her back which I cant see in the above picture either. Presumably as she matures she will change.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

By looking at your avatar you would think cuitzeonoensis, but by looking at the pics you posted and by your description i would still say lake chapala.

[chris-uk]

I'm sorry if this goes wrong but it's the first time I've used a forum and don't know how to include the quotes etc. She doesn't have any yellow like the Cuitzeonoensis pictured above and she has a paler brown dorsil line runing down her back which I cant see in the above picture either. Presumably as she matures she will change.

I'd say Chapala is right on the balance of the photos and they one in your avatar. The avatar photo seems to have a faint checkered pattern, which wouldn't be typical of a Cuitzeo. And if the dorsal stripe is pale brown (is her colouring actually brown? In the photos it looked black to me, but that could be light) then that almost nails it. Let's face it, Lake Cuitzeo and Lake Chapala garters are closely related, and part of what I was going on was the shape of the head.

As she gets older her colours will develop. From my reading (the baby Cuitzeo above died before he developed his adult colours, but still changed significantly from birth) you can expect it to colour up nicely over the coming months.


Chris i agree that it looks very dark and could be a cuitzeoensis. I don't have any experience in these guys, but it looks like it has bluish lateral stripes. Is this trait also seen in cuitzeoensis?

The dorsal and lateral stripes are almost invisible in my adults. I can just about make them out in my female, but the male is jet black. I guess it's a sort of bluish, in that it's still black, but a lighter shade of black. Their bellies are like a iridescent, gun-metal blue in the right light.


By looking at your avatar you would think cuitzeonoensis, but by looking at the pics you posted and by your description i would still say lake chapala.

I'd actually say the photos convince me in the opposite way - the avatar says Chapala, the photos say Cuitzeo. :)

[BLUESIRTALIS]

The avatar to me looked all black, but i do need glasses. Lol

[Ruth]

I'd say Chapala is right on the balance of the photos and they one in your avatar. The avatar photo seems to have a faint checkered pattern, which wouldn't be typical of a Cuitzeo. And if the dorsal stripe is pale brown

(is her colouring actually brown? In the photos it looked black to me, but that could be light) then that almost nails it. Let's face it, Lake Cuitzeo and Lake Chapala garters are closely related, and part of what I was going on was the shape of the head.

As she gets older her colours will develop. From my reading (the baby Cuitzeo above died before he developed his adult colours, but still changed significantly from birth) you can expect it to colour up nicely over the coming months.



The dorsal and lateral stripes are almost invisible in my adults. I can just about make them out in my female, but the male is jet black. I guess it's a sort of bluish, in that it's still black, but a lighter shade of black. Their bellies are like a iridescent, gun-metal blue in the right light.



I'd actually say the photos convince me in the opposite way - the avatar says Chapala, the photos say Cuitzeo. :)

I'd say she's nearly black but in fact a very dark brown. Getting her into the right light wasn't easy but the photo's are a pretty good likeness. It would be great to find out who sold the snake. If anyone knows of anyone in the Cambridge (east anglia) area who breeds them. She was sold along with some others to Peter Rice reptiles which is a new shop in March, Cambridgeshire. Peter has promised he will contact the breeder but its been a good while now and he has either forgotten or can't get hold of them.

Thanks to all of you for sharing your opinion.

[johnc79@hotmail.com]

Part of me thinks cuitzeo.
http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk252/johnc79/cuitzeobabys2012028.jpg

Then I think maybe even a scotti ?

[thamneil]

Welcome from a frozen Winnipeg!

At least we know you have an eques! That's about as far as I can get identification wise.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Note that her snake don't have all that yellow coloring and it has a bluish lateral stripe. Im not 100% sure what it is, but it's a very nice looking snake. I hope to have some of the scotti, obscurus, and cuitzeoensis in the future.

[Ruth]

Note that her snake don't have all that yellow coloring and it has a bluish lateral stripe. Im not 100% sure what it is, but i
t's a very nice looking snake. I hope to have some of the scotti, obscurus, and cuitzeoensis in the future.

She is gorgeous hence why I bought her not even knowing all the info :) I am now very much hoping to add some other garters as they are just beautiful. I wanted snakes as a child as wasn't allowed now I'm settled and have had my children I'm filling the bedroom with them. Garters don't seem to be that popular though as pets which I find odd.

[chris-uk]

It's definitely a T. equis....

However, if I had to guess, these guys weren't bred a million miles from you last year:
Eastern lake chapala garter snakes - Reptile Forums (http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/snake-classifieds/884015-lake-chapala-garter-snakes.html)

And the photos in that sale thread look similar to your little one.

[Ruth]

It's definitely a T. equis....

However, if I had to guess, these guys weren't bred a million miles from you last year:
Eastern lake chapala garter snakes - Reptile Forums (http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/snake-classifieds/884015-lake-chapala-garter-snakes.html)

And the photos in that sale thread look similar to your little one.

Well done you I think you may be right there they look exactly like her. I got a bargain though as I didn't pay that much :)

[chris-uk]

Well done you I think you may be right there they look exactly like her. I got a bargain though as I didn't pay that much :)

They dropped the price to £30 each by the end of the thread... If you got her for less and they had more, than that I need to work out an excuse to visit our Cambridge office, via March.

[Ruth]

I got her at a very special price as I had been sold a bit of a dud. The others didn't go that cheap and I'm pretty sure they're all sold :(

[chris-uk]

Glad to know that they didn't sell ridiculously cheap. Such beautiful and uncommon snakes should cost a premium.

[BUSHSNAKE]

Thats obscurus 100%...the labial scales are blue and so is the lateral stripe...the dorsal is obscured, hence the name obscurus. Cuitzeoensis have yellow or cream colored labials and some can turn blue but at a much older age.

[Ruth]

Glad to know that they didn't sell ridiculously cheap. Such beautiful and uncommon snakes should cost a premium.

Too right. I go in there often and wonder what kind of homes some of the snakes find especially the cheap ones like the corns and some of the pythons and boas. He also sells some very high end retics that go for thousands, I don't worry about the homes they go to as they are bound to be loved.

[BUSHSNAKE]

Glad to know that they didn't sell ridiculously cheap. Such beautiful and uncommon snakes should cost a premium.
Dont even get me started LOL!
the snake in your avatar looks like obscurus

[Jeff B]

hmmmmm, Hey Ruth, I told you it was an obscurus last weekend after you contacted me via email before coming to this forum to get a second oppinion. Guess you didn't believe me huh??? lol no hard feelings, I don't blame you for getting a second or many second opinions, i'd probably do the same. By the way, I also asked you if you were in the Chicago area, because I thought that snake may have come from Joe Peck (post above). If Joe says obscurus it's gospel....done, no more opinions necessary.

[Ruth]

hmmmmm, Hey Ruth, I told you it was an obscurus last weekend after you contacted me via email before coming to this forum to get a second oppinion. Guess you didn't believe me huh??? lol no hard feelings, I don't blame you for getting a second or many second opinions, i'd probably do the same. By the way, I also asked you if you were in the Chicago area, because I thought that snake may have come from Joe Peck (post above). If Joe says obscurus it's gospel....done, no more opinions necessary.
It's because of you I found this forum so thanks. I got advice from another chap that he believed it was 100% something else so poped a post on here. I'm glad I posted on here because now its clear in mind.

[chris-uk]

I just thought, if nobody has pointed you at Steven Bol's website you should take a look because it's probably the best source of information about Mexican garter species (and your obscurus most probably comes from one of his breeding group). Steven brought most (if not all) of the Mexican species to Europe and provides great information on his site, which I think is all translated from Dutch now.

Thamnophis eques obscurus - Steven Bol Garter Snakes (http://stevenbolgartersnakes.com/species/thamnophis/eques/obscurus/)

[Ruth]

I just thought, if nobody has pointed you at Steven Bol's website you should take a look because it's probably the best source of information about Mexican garter species (and your obscurus most probably comes from one of his breeding group). Steven brought most (if not all) of the Mexican species to Europe and provides great information on his site, which I think is all translated from Dutch now.

Thamnophis eques obscurus - Steven Bol Garter Snakes (http://stevenbolgartersnakes.com/species/thamnophis/eques/obscurus/)

Thanks I have indeed been over to that site and am slowly working my way through it.

[BUSHSNAKE]

hmmmmm, Hey Ruth, I told you it was an obscurus last weekend after you contacted me via email before coming to this forum to get a second oppinion. Guess you didn't believe me huh??? lol no hard feelings, I don't blame you for getting a second or many second opinions, i'd probably do the same. By the way, I also asked you if you were in the Chicago area, because I thought that snake may have come from Joe Peck (post above). If Joe says obscurus it's gospel....done, no more opinions necessary.
your absolutely right, i know what im talking about, even when it comes to morphs, aint that right Jeff?;)

[Fold]

welcome to the site :). I'm new as well haha.

[Jeff B]

your absolutely right, i know what im talking about, even when it comes to morphs, aint that right Jeff?;)

I was paying you a compliment by saying you know your species.