Looking for suggestions for my first garter :)

[AngelOtter]

So like I said in my introduction post, I'm looking into getting a garter, or a few if I find a couple I'm in love with. However I know almost nothing about the different species, so I was hoping you could help me out. So far I have two corn snakes, but I have worked with ribbon snakes, garters, boas, and other larger snakes.
I would really like at least one garter that is blue, I was looking at the neon blue red side, or a blue stripe, but correct me if I'm way off. I would also be interested in other colors, I'm convincible.

I would like something that isn't too aggressive, aggressive when held is okay, I just want to be able to do stuff in the tank without it flipping out too much.

[d_virginiana]

Red-sided and similis (blue-stripe) have a bit of a reputation for being bitey compared to the other species, but they're not so bad that you can't handle them or do anything in their cages.
The other options for blue garters are Florida Blue Easterns (sirtalis) or Puget Sound garters. Pugets are probably the bluest.

I'm partial to blue easterns though :)

[thamneil]

I have a pair of blue stripes (similis) from Scott Felzer. Not sure if it is his line or just the individuals, but mine are extremely calm. Very easy to handle and not flighty in the least. Plenty of gorgeous blue tones. Truly an amazing subspecies. They feed well and grow quickly! I wholeheartedly recommend them.

[AngelOtter]

I've looked at his website, I'm not sure how else I would get them around here, don't see garters at pet stores, or breeders. I've never even seen them at the reptile expos :( I'm kind of nervous about having live animals shipped...

[thamneil]

Shipping isn't a problem. If the weather is decent and the shipper does things properly, there is nothing to worry about. The snakes just bunker down and endure the ride.

As for breeders, Scott is great. You can also check out the websites of Don Belnap, and Jeff Benfer. Not sure what they're producing, but they're great people!

[AngelOtter]

Thanks for the suggestions :)

I'm probably going to wait for it to get a bit warmer here before I get anything shipped. I have to nail down exactly what I want anyway.
I'm think if I'm going to get them shipped I'll get more then one, maybe a pair of one type and then one other.

[chris-uk]

I would like something that isn't too aggressive, aggressive when held is okay, I just want to be able to do stuff in the tank without it flipping out too much.

I don't think you need to worry about aggression... Hands up anyone that has a garter that is so aggressive that you can't change it's water or rearrange stuff in the viv without getting bitten.
I've had two bites in 18 months, one of them drew a pin-prick of blood. :) And I've not been musked by any of mine for around a year now.

I don't have any blue, but if I was looking for blue I'd be going for a blue line of pickeringii.

[-MARWOLAETH-]

There a few blue Garters like similis,Florida Blues(a locality of T.s.sirtalis),blue phase concinnus and pickeringii. If youre just going for colouration,nothing beats a Konishur Island Ratsnake but garters personality beats prettier colours anyday so I suggest you get both ;) -those ratties are crackin snakes too! ^_^

[gregmonsta]

I would like something that isn't too aggressive, aggressive when held is okay, I just want to be able to do stuff in the tank without it flipping out too much.

Really that's down to you :rolleyes:. Any snake has the potential to be aggressive, you'll have to lay the groundwork and build up the snake's trust/confidence to your interactions with it.

[AngelOtter]

Thanks everyone, I'm aware that they are able to musk and that bites are not a big deal (I've been bitten many times by wild garters), I just didn't want a species known for being super aggressive. I handle my animals often, and have no issues with having to work on "taming" them. I'm working on that right now with my water dragon. :)
Also I'm not just looking for coloring, I'm interested in other garters that are not blue, I just want one of them to be blue :) So don't use that as a constraint.
Right now, I have:
pickeringii
similis
sirtalis

thamnophis
as options, am I missing any?

[Selkielass]

The prettiest blues I never seen in pictures were pugets.
Those I have seen in person have ranged all over the color spectrum.
Roachcrossing.com has his breeder female on display at one of our local reptile shows over the summer- gorgeous gal, very docile, and the little ones he had were brilliant blue.

For other species, the blue concinus Steve has is a real stunner in person, but blue in concinnus is like irridescence- the glow just doesn't show up in pictures.

[-MARWOLAETH-]

Thamnophis is the genus,not a species .Anything that starts with Thamnophis is a always good start ;)

If your not that fussed with flashy colours but still want an endeering pet, try radix,marcianus and sirtalis. They generally are placid (especially the females)and good all rounders (with a few exeptions to the rule as ever) :)

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Agreed! I have 1.3 wildcaught similis and 1.1 cb and they never try to bite and seem to be pretty calm.
i have a pair of blue stripes (similis) from scott felzer. Not sure if it is his line or just the individuals, but mine are extremely calm. Very easy to handle and not flighty in the least. Plenty of gorgeous blue tones. Truly an amazing subspecies. They feed well and grow quickly! I wholeheartedly recommend them.

[AngelOtter]

Okay, I think I'm going to start with at least one blue stripe, since they seem to be getting rave reviews.
I really love the pattern on the marcianus as well.

[Selkielass]

Marcianus are overall very docile and very eager eaters.
I have paired up two easterns with very agreeable temperaments- im hoping for good natured, hearty babies but time will tell.
My t. Butlerii female, Trax appears gravid, and she and her young tend to be very calm. Butlers are however, more delicate as youngsters.
I'll post if these breedings are sucessful- drop me a pm if the little ones look interesting to you.

[d_virginiana]

Easterns have the widest range of morphs it seems. If you were planning on getting a pair (I'm assuming for breeding in the future?) then you have more choices with them. Plus all three of mine are very friendly.

On Scott Felzer's website there should be a list of a lot of species and their different morphs along with pictures if I'm not mistaken...

[Steveo]

Scott is supposed to produce some blue red-sideds this year, but I've only seen the one picture of a scrub on his website. Not sure how the adults turn out.

I'm partial to pickeringii because I like the contrast of the blue on black. Blue concinnus are similar. The neon blue infernalis look really cool but are a bit more expensive than the other options.

[guidofatherof5]

Easterns have the widest range of morphs it seems. If you were planning on getting a pair (I'm assuming for breeding in the future?) then you have more choices with them. Plus all three of mine are very friendly.

On Scott Felzer's website there should be a list of a lot of species and their different morphs along with pictures if I'm not mistaken...

Scott Felzer's Garter Snakes, specializing in aberrant garters (http://www.albinogartersnake.com/)

[BLUESIRTALIS]

The blue axanthic radix is a nice looking snake too!

okay, i think i'm going to start with at least one blue stripe, since they seem to be getting rave reviews.
I really love the pattern on the marcianus as well.

[AngelOtter]

I would like to breed eventually, so I would like a pair. However, can you sex a snake as a baby? or should I be looking for adults if I want a m/f pair?
I think the red side is a bit out of my price range at the moment, since I would like to get more then one snake, and there seems to be other options that I like just as much.

Also what size do blue stripes and puget sounds get to about? I'm thinking tank sizes, and if I should just get two of both...I'm now drooling over all the snakes on that website :rolleyes:

[thamneil]

Snakes can be sexed at any age. If you have intentions to breed later down the line, buy a pair of neonates. They will grow with you, teaching you about these lovely animals.

From what I have heard, blue striped garters have a tendency to stay on the smaller end. I have been told that the pugets have the potential to get quite large. I would plan to have a 20 gallon tank minimum for one snake, increasing in size with more.

[AngelOtter]

Thanks for the information, I would prefer young snakes if they can be sexed.

That's what I thought, about a 20g for one adult, can males and females be kept together? Or should it be same sex?

[Steveo]

Unless you want to breed them, adults need to be separated. If you're doing 2 pair, you'll have to separate - either by gender or by sub/species. Youngin's can stay together but 4 will outgrow a 20g in <6 months anyway.

[guidofatherof5]

Ask if the pair you are buying are unrelated.
This is very important if you are going to breed.

[Greg'sGarters]

I personally, would recommend a Plains Garter (Thamnophis radix). I think that Steve can back me up on this one. They are very calm and usually take to feeding quite easily. As long as you order from a reputable breeder, I would say that shipping is ok, but I personally choose not to have anything shipped during the winter, due to a bad experience I had with shipping during low temps. If you're still nervous about shipping, I would just leave a payment on the snake and ask them to ship it in March/April.

[guidofatherof5]

T.radix are an awesome Thamnophis.

[chris-uk]

T.radix are an awesome Thamnophis.

I'm shocked to hear this from you Steve. :D

[AngelOtter]

I wouldn't get anything shipped now, it's too cold here, I would have to wait until it warmed up.
I wouldn't keep all 4 together, even as babies, I don't like crowding tanks. I think I will do separate tanks for each for now, just so they all have their own space, then introduce them when I want to breed.

[Selkielass]

Some snakes seem more relaxed with a buddy.
Abby, my eastern, was a shy eater until I got her a cagemate.
I believe t. Butlerii do best in group housing- they seem to take cues from each other regarding danger and what is good to eat.
Sexing babies is tricky. Lots of stories about that all over this forum.

[AngelOtter]

I would like to have them in m/f pairs in two larger tanks, but I don't want to stress them out, or have something happen to one of them. So should I house them together or separately? As in a m/f of one species in one tank, and a m/f of the other species in another tank.

[chris-uk]

I have a viv with three females of three species. I have a viv with two females of the same species. I have one with two males of two species. I have one with a male and two females of one species (all around 8 months old). I have another with a single male.
It's a case of your personal choice, which should be based on the best husbandry for the snakes you keep. How you split them depends exactly what you settle on buying. My thoughts from what you've mentioned so far would be to have have them split by sex rather than species, I don't think your considering species that anyone would advise against cohabiting.

[AngelOtter]

So I should do the two males in one tank, and the two females in another. That would work as well, as long as they get along :)

[thamneil]

They will. For the most part, garter species can be mixed, assuming they are of the same sex and similar size of course.

[AngelOtter]

Okay I think I have what I want down, I just have to wait for the weather to warm up. In the mean time, I have tanks to set up :)