Proximus or Orarius?

[Greg'sGarters]

I am confused and hoping that someone can help me with this. I'm wondering, what is the difference between Thamnophis proximus proximus and Thamnophis proximus orarius? I asked several people with no luck. If there is anyone who knows the difference, I think that it would help a lot of people in the future.

[BUSHSNAKE]

i would say range and size, ive heard orarius get larger then the rest but thats just what ive heard, i only have experience with rubrilineatus

[thamneil]

Do you still have rubrilineatus Joe?

[BUSHSNAKE]

Do you still have rubrilineatus Joe?
no, i had a single female from shannon and she was allready a little old when i got her. They dont show up for sale to often....theyre on my WANTED list, they are so beautiful!!

[Greg'sGarters]

You should put up an ad for them in the wanted section.

[guidofatherof5]

I did find this information from Western ribbon snake photo - Thamnophis proximus - G115107 - ARKive (http://www.arkive.org/western-ribbon-snake/thamnophis-proximus/image-G115107.html#glossary)

Range

The western ribbon snake occurs from Ohio, Indiana, Illinois and southern Wisconsin in the central United States, west through the Great Plains to Kansas, Nebraska and Oklahoma, and south into Central America, as far as Costa Rica.

The subspecies (http://www.arkive.org/western-ribbon-snake/thamnophis-proximus/image-G115107.html#glossary) T. p. proximus occurs in the United States, while T. p. diabolicus and T. p. orarius range from the U.S. to Mexico. T. p. rubrilineatus is confined to the Edwards Plateau of central Texas, while T. p. rutiloris occurs from Mexico to Costa Rica, and T. p. alpinus is restricted to high elevations in central Chiapas, Mexico.

[Greg'sGarters]

I'm taking a risk by saying this, but I think I may have found the answer. It appears to me that orarius has a single dot on it's head while proximus has 2. I know that that's the way that you tell sauritus from proximus. Proximus has spots on the head, sauritus doesn't. Look at a few of these photos below.

Orarius:

8104

8105

8106

Proximus:

8107

8108

Is is controversial? Yes, but it's the only thing we have so far.