Just not hungry?

[EKS56]

You can lead your snake to the pinky but you can't make him eat. I got a male and female Blackneck garter's in the mail almost three weeks ago now. The female started taking food about two weeks after arrival and has eaten twice now but the little male has yet to eat. Worm, pinky whole or chopped. On the tong off the tong nothing seems to please him. I know this is not to the critical stage yet but I would like it much better if the Little Man would take some food:(

[guidofatherof5]

You are right about it not being that long. Not panic time yet. Are the housed together?

[Greg'sGarters]

Here's what I do. I take a sauce cup (I just ask my local chinese restaurant for them), and I fill it with about 5mm of water. I put one live feeder guppy in there and then put them in a semi bright place, and leave him alone for 30 minutes, this usually works. If he still doesn't eat, I wouldn't worry about it TOO much unless he starts to lose weight or show other signs of illness. Also make sure his conditions are right in his cage, 85 degree hotspot, 75 degree cool spot, fresh water, etc. Also, Blacknecks tend to be pickier than other garters so watch him closely.



8073
That's the type of sauce cup I use

[-MARWOLAETH-]

cyrtopsis are generaly fish specialists.Try some silversides.Maybe some American members could tell where to get them.

[EKS56]

Yes, but I separate them for feeding.

[Greg'sGarters]

You can usually pick them up at any chain pet store, they are usually in that one freezer in between the fish and reptile sections, although sometimes they are in that one freezer that no one notices and half the employees don't know exists - just the ones who work in the fish department. :D

[guidofatherof5]

Yes, but I separate them for feeding.

Try setting some food in a dish under the hide with the male out of the enclosure for a day(24 hours).

[EKS56]

I had an Eastern for several years and primarily fed him small minnows from a local bait shop. He loved them. I could tell he enjoyed catching the fish in his water bowl. Then I was informed that was very bad:( Whats the word on that?

[ChareiHeals]

Unintentional hijacking- Are minnows actually bad for garters? If this is the case, I need to inform my former co-workers that they are incorrectly feeding Steve's cousin Keith.

[guidofatherof5]

Unintentional hijacking- Are minnows actually bad for garters? If this is the case, I need to inform my former co-workers that they are incorrectly feeding Steve's cousin Keith.

Most minnows not only contain thiaminase but also carry a heavy parasite load.

[Greg'sGarters]

Alewife (Alosa pseudoharengus) Anchovies (Anchoa hepsetus) Anchovies (Engraulis mordax) Bass (white) (Lepibema chrysops) Black quahog (Artica islandica) Bowfin (dogfish) (Amia calva) Bream (Abramis brama) Buckeye shiner (Notropus atherionoides) Buffalofish (Ictiobus cyprinellus) Bull Head (Ameirurus m. melas) Burbot (Lota lota maculosa) Burbot (Lota lota) Butterfish (Poronotus triacanthus) Carp (Cyprinus carpio) Catfish (channel) (Ictalurus laccustris punctatus) Clams (chowder, steamer, cherrystone) Fathead minnow (Primephales p. promelas) Garfish (garpike) Goldfish (Carassius auratus) Herring (Baltic) (Clupea harengus var. membranus) Herring (Clupea harengus) Lamprey (adult) (Petromyzon marintus) Mackerel (Scomber japonicas) (Pacific) Menhaden (Brecoortia tyrannus) Menhaden (large scale) (Brecoortia patronus) Moray ell (Gymnothorax ocellatus) Mussel (bigtoe) (Pluerobema cordatum) Razor belly (scaled sardine) (Harengula pensacolae) Sauger (Stizostedion c. canadense) Scallop (Placopecten grandis) Sculpin (Myooxocephalus quadricornis thompsonii) Shad (gizzard) (Dorosoma cepedianum) Shiner (spottail) (Notropis hudsonius) Smelt (freshwater) (Osmerus mordax) Stoneroller (central) (Campostoma anomalum pullum) Sucker (common white) (Catostomus c. commersonii) White bass (Lepimbema chrysops) Whitefish (Prosopium cylindraceum quadriaterale) White fish (Coregonus clupeaformis

If it is any of the fish listed above, then YES it is bad to feed these on a regular basis. Feeding them once or twice is fine, but not as a staple diet.

[d_virginiana]

This male is super shy and jumpy. When I was there he seemed to be more relaxed when the female was in the tank. If there's a way you could put her feeding container up beside the tank and let him see her eat, that might be worth a try too. My baby is by far the shyest of mine, and he will come out and start begging if he sees Houdini eating.




If it is any of the fish listed above, then YES it is bad to feed these on a regular basis. Feeding them once or twice is fine, but not as a staple diet.

No one knows what species those fish were, probably not even the guy selling them :p If I had to guess, I would say they were a safe species since the garter he's talking about is my Houdini who is a very healthy 12 years old right now (he's blind, but because of cataracts), and ate them almost exclusively for the first 10 of those years until I found this forum and realized it was a no-no.
Since frozen silversides haven't been tried yet, it would be better to try those before going to these minnows.

[thamneil]

Throw him in a deli cup with a live fish and a jolting but of water. Vacate the room and leave him for as long as you can. He will eat this unless there is an underlying issue or other reason. Often times, the more skittish snakes are intimidated by our presence. My female scotti feeds in this manner and won't even touch the food if she can see me.

[guidofatherof5]

Throw him in a deli cup with a live fish and a jolting but of water. Vacate the room and leave him for as long as you can. He will eat this unless there is an underlying issue or other reason. Often times, the more skittish snakes are intimidated by our presence. My female scotti feeds in this manner and won't even touch the food if she can see me.

That's one heck of a deli cup, more like a deli bucket. These are adult T. c. cyrtopsis (Western blackneck garter snake):D;)

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/general-talk/12112-retained-shed-2.html Post #17

[d_virginiana]

That's one heck of a deli cup, more like a deli bucket. These are adult T. c. cyrtopsis (Western blackneck garter snake):D;)

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/general-talk/12112-retained-shed-2.html Post #17

I don't think we've seen a picture of the male yet, have we? A deli cup would still be too small lol. But I'm curious, what it the average adult size for blackneck males? This one is so tiny compared to my male eastern!

[guidofatherof5]

I don't think we've seen a picture of the male yet, have we? A deli cup would still be too small lol. But I'm curious, what it the average adult size for blackneck males? This one is so tiny compared to my male eastern!


http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/general-talk/12112-retained-shed-2.html Post #17

[d_virginiana]

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/general-talk/12112-retained-shed-2.html Post #17

Those were both the female I'm pretty sure?

[guidofatherof5]

In post 17 he says he bought a male and a female.

[d_virginiana]

Yeah, but both of those pics were the female :) lol, I was the one holding her for them.

[guidofatherof5]

Then I guess I've never seen the size of the male. Sorry, I was wrong.

[EKS56]

He's not all that big compared to the female.

8078

[guidofatherof5]

Good looking male.

[EKS56]

I don't think either of them were handled very much but they have really taken to being held. Maybe even to the point of enjoying it. I pestered him to eat most of the day today. I'll try again later tomorrow.

[thamneil]

Sorry I instantly assumed they were young! Doesn't have to be a deli cup! Any container will work! Just leave them be with a living fish, and they WILL eat it.

[chris-uk]

My blacknecks are my worst eaters, inconsistent and at the moment they haven't eaten since mid-November. Their activity level has been almost nil, so they aren't expending a lot of energy and neither have lost weight. I'm not going to worry much unless they don't start eating as the days get longer.
But when they do eat it is rarely in front of me. Although to highlight how inconsistent they can be, one week the female ate from my hands (I'd had her out to weigh before feeding, and the dish was in front of the viv door, she got a whiff and helped herself when I was opening the viv to put her back), odd weeks she will tong feed (usually only when she's at the top of a plant), and other weeks she refuses to eat when I'm in the room.

[Invisible Snake]

I have a few Eastern Blacknecks, a large female that will eat anything offered and a pair of 2012's that would only eat live fish. I started heavily scenting pinkies with live feeder fish for the 2012's and they have been eating them twice a week.

With older EBN's they are most likely wildcaught, I can only count on 1 hand ppl who have CB EBN's older than 3 years. My large female is docile when picked up, but when reaching in her enclosure she would false strike.

[EKS56]

The first couple of times I picked up my female she bumped me threatening a bite.

[guidofatherof5]

The first couple of times I picked up my female she bumped me threatening a bite.

My girl "Enforcer"(T.radix female) does that every time we meet.
I'm guessing it's her way of reminding me who the boss is.:D
Even though she has been with me from birth she still pushes her weight around.

[EKS56]

Got me some silver sides tonight. I'll see if he has a taste for fish.

[EKS56]

I know I'll probably get scolded for this but I stopped by Ray's tonight and I'm gonna try some live minnows on my little male Blackneck. He hasn't eaten in the six weeks since I got him and I want to see him eat. If he don't eat eventually it won't matter. I had an Eastern that was fed nothing but these minnow's from from the same bait and tackle for ten years and he is still wiggling so I'm hoping if I can break the ice he'll start eating pinkies and nightcrawlers and ween him off the minnows.

[guidofatherof5]

I know I'll probably get scolded for this but I stopped by Ray's tonight and I'm gonna try some live minnows on my little male Blackneck. He hasn't eaten in the six weeks since I got him and I want to see him eat. If he don't eat eventually it won't matter. I had an Eastern that was fed nothing but these minnow's from from the same bait and tackle for ten years and he is still wiggling so I'm hoping if I can break the ice he'll start eating pinkies and nightcrawlers and ween him off the minnows.

Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.;)

[Invisible Snake]

Try placing a thawed pinky in the water bowl with a few live minnows, I've used that trick to slowly convert 1 of my EBNs into taking pinks.

[CrazyHedgehog]

have you checked the heat? try upping it a notch, ( what is it at?)
I had some tetrataenia that wouldn't eat, I cooled for a few weeks then raised temps, they are eating now.
One needs to see movement though, so chopped up worm over a chopped up pinkie seems to be doing the trick at the moment. . .

[guidofatherof5]

I know I'll probably get scolded for this but I stopped by Ray's tonight and I'm gonna try some live minnows on my little male Blackneck. He hasn't eaten in the six weeks since I got him and I want to see him eat. If he don't eat eventually it won't matter. I had an Eastern that was fed nothing but these minnow's from from the same bait and tackle for ten years and he is still wiggling so I'm hoping if I can break the ice he'll start eating pinkies and nightcrawlers and ween him off the minnows.

You might try using the minnow for scenting. Chop it up and scent the other food items.

[EKS56]

The room temperature has been between 70* - 75*. That's the low end of what's recommended so I went and bought a heater that sticks to the side of the tank to raise the temp a little today. He doesn't act like he feels bad. Plenty of movement, tongue licking, no visible sores or tumors around the mouth. He just don't want to eat. It'll be 6 weeks Tuesday. :(

[Invisible Snake]

That's got to be why he hasn't eaten, try to get the warm side up around 85*-90*. With temps in the 70's he was probably getting ready to brumate.

[guidofatherof5]

The room temperature has been between 70* - 75*. That's the low end of what's recommended so I went and bought a heater that sticks to the side of the tank to raise the temp a little today. He doesn't act like he feels bad. Plenty of movement, tongue licking, no visible sores or tumors around the mouth. He just don't want to eat. It'll be 6 weeks Tuesday. :(


It's good that you are observing this situation calmly.

[EKS56]

It's good that you are observing this situation calmly.

No other way to take it. If he doesn't eat and dies I will be more than disappointed but if I have done all I can do then I've done all I can do.
Is it such a thing as force feeding a snake and if it is at what point should it be done?

[guidofatherof5]

You will get varying opinions on that question.
I say no, as there must be a reason for the not eating. Food might cause more problems.
Just my thoughts.

[EKS56]

I tend to agree.
I would have to think he was ready to die before I would try that.

[d_virginiana]

I knew a guy who ran a reptile specialty store, but would take in sick snakes and try to help get them eating. Usually young ball pythons or corns that were being sold for like 5 bucks (you get what you pay for...) and likely had congenital issues. He said he'd tried force feeding when it got to the point that the snake was about to die, and he's personally never seen one survive after it got to that point.

[guidofatherof5]

Keep doing what you are doing. You are giving the snake the best chance it has.

[EKS56]

He's still not eating. I have seen him drink water twice but no food. For the last two weeks I have tried feeding him twice a day with no luck. The temp in the room is close to 80*. We have tried it all with no luck. The female has had no problem eating from the start. It's been two months. :( He acts fine but he won't eat.

[guidofatherof5]

Refresh my memory.

Fecal float done?

[d_virginiana]

Don't they usually need actual poo and not just urates for that? Apparently he's not producing anything but urates right now. But no, no fecal float has been done.

[guidofatherof5]

I do believe the parasites will be in the urates as well.

[d_virginiana]

Will cat/dog vets typically do a fecal on a snake? Just asking, because there aren't any exotics vets in their area.

[gregmonsta]

Will cat/dog vets typically do a fecal on a snake? Just asking, because there aren't any exotics vets in their area.

Regardless of the animal they should still be able to test a sample for parasites ;). I had to rely on a 'furry' vet for the first sample I had to have tested years ago. I then conferred with them on suitable treatment after doing some research on possible treatments.

[Natrix]

Feeding live prey items to snakes will always be a shady subject. We as herpetologists should endevour to give our charges the best care we possibly can that includes offering natural prey Items such as live fish & amphibians. There is always the risk of parasitic infection and the ethical question is always a human one. The point is the snakes certainly won't mind......... :) How many of us actually do offer these items? I don't but only because there isn't any suitable natural items to be found here, plus I wouldn't want to risk parasitic infection. I have no probs feeding live guppies though ;)

[EKS56]

I have been offering live minnows for the last couple of weeks. Him nor the female have shown any interest in them.

[EKS56]

What is the longest to your knowledge that a snake could go with out eating before they die. I am just before sticking some food in his mouth by force. :(

[guidofatherof5]

The condition of the snake dictates that. I've heard of some garters going longer then 4 month without food and surviving.
When you start to see a triangular shaped body the snake is in trouble. It's encouraging to hear he is drinking though.

[chris-uk]

What is the longest to your knowledge that a snake could go with out eating before they die. I am just before sticking some food in his mouth by force. :(

I've been worrying about my 2 year-old Eastern Blacknecks, they stopped eating in October and haven't eaten again yet (although in the last week they've started becoming more active again). I contacted their breeder (Sjoerd) to ask how their parents behave, and it appears that my two are following the same pattern as their parents - binge eat over the summer months, stop eating in the Autumn, and then start showing some interest around now.
I know they were in good condition before they stopped eating, and they've been extremely inactive (I didn't brumate them, but next year I will be brumating them so that they conserve more energy in the cold). I'll weigh them later and see if they've lost much weight, I've not been disturbing them much while they've been inactive.

Hopefully your guys are following the same Blackneck pattern as mine and their parents.

[chris-uk]

I'll weigh them later and see if they've lost much weight, I've not been disturbing them much while they've been inactive.

My female has lost 1g (40g to 39g) and the male has lost 8g (42g to 34g) since October. The male was more active than the female over the winter (in that I actually saw him occasionally without going digging to check he was still alive).

Have you weighed your guys? Do you know if they are loosing weight since you got them?

[d_virginiana]

The male is apparently just as active as a normal, non-brumating snake. My adult male has gone off food for awhile in winter, but it's always accompanied by him getting kind of lethargic or inactive. Weird thing is the female is eating normally, and as far as we know they hadn't gone off food before they were shipped.
lol I don't mean to hijack this or anything. It's just that I talk to them over the phone about the snakes pretty often, so I usually know what's going on.

Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if this snake has a binge/fast habit. It's very small. Like, Harley has always been a big girl, but it's about the size she was as a yearling at like 4 years old.

I wouldn't try to force or assist-feed him unless you think he's about to drop dead. Especially one as nervous as he is. I worry he'd end up getting injured.

[EKS56]

Again, I'm not happy about the snake not eating but for some reason I'm not in a panic either. He and the female hide a lot and are always together. When ever I get him out he seems active, lots of tongue flicking, enjoys a dip in the water and seems to have plenty of energy. I have not weighed the snakes. It seems like a good idea though. I may see about finding a quality scale that is accurate. You never know when you may want to know their weight for a reference. I bet I have spent twenty hours chasing him with pinky parts. He often bumps the food I guess just to tease me.

[EKS56]

I noticed today he appears to be getting ready to shed. His eyes are getting a bluish color to them.

[guidofatherof5]

Maybe this will be the event that kicks his eating into gear.

[EKS56]

I put him in garter snake rehab over the weekend.

[guidofatherof5]

I put him in garter snake rehab over the weekend.

Please explain? I don't think a 12 step will get him to eat.:D

[chris-uk]

Hello my name is Mr Blackneck. I'm an anorexic. It's been 84 days since my last meal....

[d_virginiana]

Step one. Admit you have a problem.


Please explain? I don't think a 12 step will get him to eat.:D

lol He's with me for a few weeks. They don't have access to a vet that can/will do anything for reptiles if it comes to that,. He seems to be settling in well, and is out lounging on top of his hide and plants every time I walk by.

He's too active for this to be a winter-related slow down IMO... In fact very active. I'm wondering if this may be spring-time related.

[guidofatherof5]

Thanks for the clarification. Hope the change of venue will spark a feeding response.

[d_virginiana]

I think it will. I just got back from trying to feed him; left the pinkie and a worm just in case. He actually chased the pinkie around the enclosure a little bit today, and even bit at it once. I'm thinking he'll eat within a day or two.

After seeing his reactions when I go in his tub before handling and after handling Harley, I'm pretty sure he's been in mating mode, especially with the female in the tank with him all the time like she was. He seems to be calming down a little bit though. I'll be sure to try and feed him before I go around her tomorrow.

[d_virginiana]

Noticed something tonight. Since I got him, he's been rubbing his face all over the enclosure against the walls/hides/floor. At first I figured it was because he was about to shed, but he's still doing it quite a lot even after the shed.
Haven't seen any signs of mites or anything, so it's probably stress related. I have three sides of the enclosure covered... May wait two days or so without even going in there to see if it calms him down some more.

Anyway, I've decided that if he gets much thinner (he still looks healthy for now, just a little on the skinny side) I may try a quick brumation. Only if it's absolutely necessary though. I remember a thread about someone trying this for non-eating babies with success... Any advice on how to do it? I've never brumated one for short or long term before, so any details about how to do it would be great.

[EKS56]

"Noticed something tonight. Since I got him, he's been rubbing his face all over the enclosure against the walls/hides/floor."

He's been doing that all along.

[guidofatherof5]

I think I would give him some prolonged shed box time, keeping the water warm and the humidity high. 6 hours at a time would be good.
After that time I would see if you can get any shed off his mouth/lip area. Start at the corner of the mouth. If there is any retained shed it should start easily there.
Just an idea.

If a brumation is going to be done here's a video I did on preparations.
Hope it helps.

P6aEUjm_48s

[d_virginiana]

Since he hasn't been eating for awhile I made sure to check the shed. I don't think anything's been retained, but it couldn't hurt to put him in a shed box for a little while just in case.

Thanks for the link, hopefully he eats before I have to try that. :p

[EKS56]

Thank Goodness!!!

Almost four months to the day my little male Blackneck ate a pinky. :)

I can't remember who posted this statement but it seemed to be a solid bit of info. "The snake will eventually eat, if not, there is something wrong with him and he'll die."

[Invisible Snake]

Congrats!!!!! I know that feeling of relief when a snake finally eats after a hunger strike :)

[guidofatherof5]

Great news.

Did you attempt more or just the one? Now's the time to offer that and other items.

[EKS56]

Yes, he ate a second within ten minutes of the first. I didn't want to over do it so I stopped at two. Also worth noting. The female was like in a feeding frenzy yesterday. She normally eats two, last night she ate five.

[guidofatherof5]

Very good news to hear all the way around.

[EKS56]

Something in the snakes environment has changed and set off a feeding frenzy. The female ate 5 yesterday and 4 today, the male ate 2 yesterday and 3 today.:)

[guidofatherof5]

Barometric pressure and light phases might be some of it.

[EKS56]

Amazing how fast they have fattened up in just two days:)
Here are a couple of interesting footnotes to this.
The temperature in the room is now a steady 80*. I would think it was in the temperature but my daughter kept him for about three weeks and she keeps her snake room at that temp. At any rate it is 80*-82* now.
Here is something odd. I play the guitar. In fact I play everyday. I keep my guitars in a room in the house that the temperature and the humidity stay pretty constant. My guitars hold tune really well and for some reason two times a year they will change tune, like overnight. Once in the Spring and once in the Fall. Last night when I went to play the guitar it was out of tune.
But just like someone flipped a switch they both have gone into a feeding frenzy. The female has been going after my hand :o

[chris-uk]

I'm really happy to hear that your blacknecks are feeding again, there must be something in the air this weekend because my two have eaten today as well.