Retained Shed

[EKS56]

I have a couple of new Black Necked garters and the female has a dark line along her belly. Is this a retained shed. If not what would be an indication of a retained shed? Are retained sheds dangerous to the snake and will it correct itself at the next shed?
Thanks,
EKS56

80208021

[infernalis]

It is difficult to tell by the photos.

Personally, I have never seen any retained shed skin form a nice straight line like you seem to indicate, every retained shed skin I have seen is tatters or bands all around and tail tips/eye caps.

[chris-uk]

It looks odd, but doesn't look like a retained shed. Is your concern that the discoloured stripe IS the retained shed (in which case I'd be very surprised if that is the case), or that the discoloured stripe is a sign that the whole shed has been retained?

[guidofatherof5]

I can't tell from the photos either but you need to error on the side of safety.
Did you witness the snake in opaque(shedding) phase?
Retained sheds are deadly. Left unattended the snake usually dies.
The retained shed will cause breathing and circulation problems.
I suggest using a shed box immediately. After 30 minutes in the box you should be able to start the shed at the upper or lower lip area. Worst case you start at the vent/cloaca and remove the shed backwards.
A retained shed will have a crinkly look to it. The snake in most cases will have labored breathing and have trouble moving correctly. They will appear to be stiff.

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/husbandry/11703-retained-shed-indentication-treatment.html

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(http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/husbandry/11703-retained-shed-indentication-treatment.html)

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

if you're talking about that gray line that runs down the middle of her belly, that is just her natural coloration.

If you're talking about that weird patch of scales in the 1st photo, that looks like an old scar to me.

Either way I see no indications of retained shed.

[d_virginiana]

I need to clarify this thread; I saw this snake in person the other day and referred EKS56 to the forum. The line down her belly was not what made me think she may have a retained shed. She had a ring of dried scales just below the vent area. I had limited time, but a warm soak did get some of them to peel back and got a few more scales to peel off. There were also some dried scales coming off down near the tail tip. The female looks a bit... odd all over, for lack of a better word. Many of her scales, especially the belly scales, have an almost shriveled look to them. However, she is also REALLY showing her age, so I was not sure if that was an issue or an indication of age.
The reason I asked EKS56 to post on here is that I know just below the vent is a common place for sheds to get stuck, and he has no info on this snake's last shed, other than it was more than two weeks ago (when they were shipped to him).

Additionally, the male this snake was shipped with has an odd place on his forehead that has the 'fused' look I've heard of facial scales getting if they are retained. This makes me wonder if maybe both snakes had been in an environment with very low humidity or something before they were shipped.

[guidofatherof5]

Sounds like a dehydration issue over an extended period of time to me. If this is the case
bi-daily warm water soaking can only help. Leaving them in the shed box for a few hours would be very beneficial.
Updated photos of the overall snakes would help us help.

[chris-uk]

Lora, if you've seen the snake in the scale I'd go with your assessment. We can't see in the photos what you were able to see in person. I'd like to see some more photos, especially the odd patches on the female.
It sounds like if there is any retained shed it could be old, but a shed box won't do any harm and may clear up some of the patches. It also sounds (from the brief history) that these are old snakes who may not have been kept in ideal conditions.

Didn't Steve have a snake with some shrivelled scales recently? I don't think we found any answers to that.

[guidofatherof5]

Lora, if you've seen the snake in the scale I'd go with your assessment. We can't see in the photos what you were able to see in person. I'd like to see some more photos, especially the odd patches on the female.
It sounds like if there is any retained shed it could be old, but a shed box won't do any harm and may clear up some of the patches. It also sounds (from the brief history) that these are old snakes who may not have been kept in ideal conditions.

Didn't Steve have a snake with some shrivelled scales recently? I don't think we found any answers to that.

No answers yet. Still the same situation. I've got some new treatment in the mail(unrelated to our talk)

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/general-talk/11264-strange-dark-patch-skin.html

[d_virginiana]

The female looks pretty rough in general. Definitely on the thin side too. Like... I believe she's 7 years old, but she looks and acts older than my 12 year old snake. A complete sweetheart though.
Other than the one scale on the male's head, everything about him looked good. I believe he's much younger though. He's also very tiny; probably about 16 inches if I had to guess. But according to the seller he was definitely full grown (I've never worked with blacknecks, so idk, maybe that's normal).
Neither of them have eaten anything since they were shipped either. The male doesn't seem too affected, but it'd be good if the female would start eating ASAP. They've tried everything but fish so far, and I believe they're getting some silversides soon. I recommended getting a basking light and bumping the temps up a little.

If I talk to the owner and they haven't seen the thread, I'll ask them to post up some more pics.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

where did these snakes come from, and did the seller make the buyer aware that they were getting old snakes with possible issues?

[d_virginiana]

They came from somewhere in VA. The seller was up front about the age, but no possible health issues were mentioned.

On the bright side, apparently the female did start eating tonight.

[Greg'sGarters]

I'd just soak them in warm water for 15 minutes and then run my fingers along them and any retained shed should come off easy.

[guidofatherof5]

I'd just soak them in warm water for 15 minutes and then run my fingers along them and any retained shed should come off easy.

It's not always that easy.;)

[Eddie]

Thats for sure Steve. I have been working on one big old girl I have all day today. Shed box, soaking, peeling old skin a little at a time and letting her rest. I have been at it for about 8 hours already.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

It's not always that easy.;)

yea... sometimes a retained shed is on there like superglue!!! especially if a previous owner failed to peel it off after so long! I once literally had to peel one of my 8 foot, angry king rat snakes.... scale. by scale. none of the skin would come up, it would break at every scale!!! It took me like 2 days!!!

[EKS56]

Thanks for all the replies. Some really good information here. I didn't give much background on the snakes in my original post. I purchased 2 Blackneck garters through the mail, male and female. I really don't have a lot of history on them. I have had them for 10 days and the female took food tonight for the first time so I don't want to disturb her with much handling tonight but I'll try to get some close ups tomorrow. I'll attach a couple more photo's but I doubt that will be what you need.
Thanks again for all the info, this site is going to be a great source of info.80398040

[d_virginiana]

Tomorrow try and get some high resolution close ups of her belly scales. Those were the ones that were the most obviously strange looking, especially as they got further down on her belly.

Also, try and get one from above with her stretched out; from certain angles she looked sort of thin, but in these pics she looks more like a normal weight. That may just have been where she hadn't eaten in awhile though. My oldest snake loses weight very rapidly if he goes without eating.

[EKS56]

I was glad to see her take some food tonight. Hopfully the male will eat tomorrow. I'm going to put him in the tub. I think there is too much distraction in their permanent cage.

[guidofatherof5]

From the most recent photos I don't see any classic signs of retained shed. Still something to be worried about until you know for sure.
Nice looking snakes.

[snake man]

I don't think I have said welcome yet, so welcome. I hope what ever is going on with your snakes everything turns out alright.

[EKS56]

Thanks, I think they'll be alright. I've had them for 10 days and the one in question ate for the first time since I got her tonight. That's always a good sign.

[EKS56]

They came from a breeder in Virginia. Yes I knew the age of the snakes. The female is 6yrs. and the male is 4yrs. He said there were no health issues he was aware of.

[d_virginiana]

I was glad to see her take some food tonight. Hopfully the male will eat tomorrow. I'm going to put him in the tub. I think there is too much distraction in their permanent cage.

Don't forget to clean the tub well before putting them in it since you had that wild snake in there :)
You should put up a picture of the male too (you can start a thread for your snakes and the cute stuff they do where you can post pics and stuff).


From the most recent photos I don't see any classic signs of retained shed. Still something to be worried about until you know for sure.
Nice looking snakes.

That's good. I hope maybe just a few scales got retained or she had really dry skin that was getting a little flaky. I didn't have much time around them, but especially with the male having a retained scale on his head too, I wanted to refer him here just in case it was something more intense than that.