Did i do the right thing?

[Dracorex5]

So after growing overwhelmed with them, i decided that a springtime release for six baby garters would be best for them. I didn't know what area could be safe, so i went to the nearby nature center that i volunteer at so they could decide the best place. I did not an exact location from which the mother was from, so i said "I believe north carolina." The wildlife cordinator i did not know grew frustrated, wanting to know who i got them from. I did not give her the original owners name, as i honestly didnt give it. I knew garters were illegal here, but i had been ok-ed by nature officials and i was now doing the legal action of turning them over to a professional center. She informed me that if i couldnt give her more info she couldnt release them into the wild..... This center doesnt have the facilities to care for a mass number of reptiles, and they will likely be culled....

Did i do the right thing, even if these babies are going to die? I cant do much now.... And i fear that she may take dramatic measures. I told her i got the mother from a reptile gathering in a nearby town about an hour away as a rescue.... The same place where Repticon is! If she calls repticon thinking thats where i got her, could i get banned from the con? Im scared and im sad... Those scrubs dont deserve to be culled because of my mistake and i dont want to lose priviledges after being misled by previous nature officials.... Am i thinking too much? Should i not be guilty at all?

[Dracorex5]

*honestly didnt know it is what i meant for the original owner name. It was the sibling of a friend whom i hadnt known for long

[guidofatherof5]

Did the official say they might be culled?

[d_virginiana]

Next time you need to get rid of snakes, either sell/give them to someone you know will take care of them or just release them yourself in the area you believe the mother to be from. I mean, all a wildlife official would do is put them somewhere away from people; there's not a lot of science to it, especially with a species as common as a garter snake. Though the best option is not to breed snakes if you can't care for or sell the babies.

[Stefan-A]

Speaking only from a nature conservation standpoint, if you don't know exactly where they stem from or if they're of mixed localities, they can't be released anywhere. Even if the locality was known, they shouldn't be released anywhere other than in that location. Releasing them in another location can have serious detrimental effects on the local population.

If this is the situation, they should either remain in captivity for the rest of their lives, or be culled.

[infernalis]

Why didn't you give them away on the forum?

[Eddie]

Agreed

[Dracorex5]

I put up a post on the board, and have been saying i need to get rid of them for a long while. There just didnt seem to be any interest. I thought that because i was certain they were from out of state the nature center would let them go somewhere safe.... But it really doesnt seem so.... I trusted them. I was told that what o was doing was legal in my area, and then suddenly it wasnt. I went in so certain theyd live good lives in the wild and now they my not live lives at all....

[Dracorex5]

And i did not breed them, the mother was already gravid an i didnt know. Ive been trying to care for them for months hoping to find them homes out of state.... But after losing 9/15 of then to strange circumstances that made me geel incredibly inadequate as an owner and no one really seeming to be interested in taking them i turned to the nature center

[guidofatherof5]

Don't be too hard on yourself. Some groups of babies have problems.

[infernalis]

Don't be too hard on yourself. Some groups of babies have problems.

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You were far more responsible than some people, At least you didn't just go dump them on the ground.

[ConcinusMan]

I went in so certain theyd live good lives in the wild

Well, at least now you know. Lesson learned. This goes for any wildlife agency for reasons that Stefan already stated: If you turn them over to them, (any animal that has been in captivity, especially if it's not listed CITES, is not endangered, etc) it is most certain that they will not "live good lives in the wild" or live at all for that matter. They will be destroyed in most cases. I do not believe that they were asking you questions so that they would know where to release them. They had other motives, because they never intended to release them. By law, they can't.

One recent case comes to mind. Someone in Oregon took an albino white-tailed deer fawn from the wild and raised it as a pet. The animal was healthy and tame and had a good life on private property. By law, the wildlife officials couldn't let him keep it, but they also couldn't release it. The animal was confiscated, breaking the person's heart (and the public's) and it was destroyed.

If you're ever in this situation again, consult the forum. We could have told you they would destroy them and I'm sure someone would have made arrangements to take them instead of letting them be culled. There's no need to feel guilty about it. Just learn from it.


You were far more responsible than some people, At least you didn't just go dump them on the ground.

Exactly. Sometimes doing the right thing feels wrong but in all reality if you had done that, (just dumped them anywhere) they probably wouldn't have survived anyway and if they did, they could have done harm to the snakes already living there.

[dsmdavid22]

Hard to say,I just wish you could have returned my email re; purchasing them after you offer all 6 up for sale.
I am very disappointed . and a little pissed off.

[ConcinusMan]

You are on the other side of an international border though. Not saying it's impossible for you to get them, but it does present a bit of an obstacle.:cool:

[Dracorex5]

....... Now im a little pissed off..... Really pissed off..... Your email was sitting in my spam..... I cant believe it.....

[ConcinusMan]

http://thevirtualcooler.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/homer-doh.jpg

[Dracorex5]

The border does make the blow a little less painful though.... If i had tried to ship these guys to canada id likely have gotten in a lot of trouble, because the laws arent what i was told they were.... Still, the interest was there and you were willing.... Im so sorry

[d_virginiana]

The border does make the blow a little less painful though.... If i had tried to ship these guys to canada id likely have gotten in a lot of trouble, because the laws arent what i was told they were.... Still, the interest was there and you were willing.... Im so sorry

I wouldn't recommend shipping anything illegal in the mail... If you ever run into that sort of situation again it might even be worth it to drive over a border and ship from a different post office. Where I'm at if they catch you doing anything reminiscent of gaining a profit off illegal species they come down really hard on you, but if they just catch you with one (almost never happens unless you shove it in their faces...) they typically won't press charges as long as you cooperate.

[Dracorex5]

I didnt know they were a sort of illegal. Garters are considered a vermin species in my city, and state law says "vermin animals can be kept". However, as i was rudely informed today at the nature center, the garter being on the list of state species trumps its vermin status. I would have shipped them unknowing and uninformed, which could have been huge trouble. Im not going to say its best but its still a thought to ponder in the idea of shipping the poor things.

[ConcinusMan]

Even at the time you first mentioned it, I thought that didn't sound right. Garters having "vermin" status I mean. They aren't vermin by any stretch of the imagination. In a state where the species occurs, they are wildlife. Both literally and legally.

Now, a "sewer rat" or "norway rat" which is both a pest, and non-native...

That's vermin.

[Dracorex5]

You can call exterminators here to deal with garters through glue traps and lethal method, yet you cant keep them. The "vermin" stat is just basically what exterminators will kill.... Though i dont understand why people would want them dead.....

[ConcinusMan]

Though i dont understand why people would want them dead.....

Irrational fear, loathing, ignorance, just to name a few reasons.

I hear what you're saying about the "vermin" status, although they don't call it that here. It's perfectly legal to kill them on private property here too, but when it comes to keeping them, native garters are off limits because they are "wildlife" (although they don't enforce it. They completely ignore it when it comes to garter snakes)

[Dracorex5]

None of which i understand. I have misanthropic views on irrationality.... But thats just me being a little overly prideful. Maybe someday people will understand how beautiful the world and everything in it truly is

[ConcinusMan]

I have misanthropic views on irrationality...

I hear you. Everything about our way of life in an industrialized society that depends on petroleum consumption and deforestation, is irrational and unsustainable, but we ignore that fact and do it anyway.:cool:

But don't even get me started on that. Way off topic.

[i_heart_sneakie_snakes]

You can call exterminators here to deal with garters through glue traps

I had no idea they used that type of method. How cruel and horrible :(

[Dracorex5]

Glue traps are the worst.... I believe there was a video about them on this forum once. Exterminators can install them, and when a snake gets trapped on one you throw the trap in the garbage with the snake attached. Some companies insist that some are "humane", but even in trying to remove the snake from the glue you can rip off scales and skin causing likely fatal damage.... Its horrible....

[Greg'sGarters]

Damn you spam inbox!!! I've lost important messages to the spam box.

[EasternGirl]

Look...it sounds to me like a very complicated situation, to say the least. And it also sounds like you were trying to do the best you could with the info you had at the time...and that you made attempts to find the snakes a home...so let yourself off the hook...I know you will still question yourself...which means you have a good heart...but you did try to do the right thing, so I don't think you did anything wrong here. Trying to ship the babies to Canada would have been very complicated if not impossible. For future reference...or for anyone else who has snakes who need a home...just start a thread on here and discuss what is going on with us...I would start a thread in the general forum to discuss the situation rather than putting up an adoption ad...and go from there. But I do think that you tried to do the right thing and that it was a difficult situation....