Listerine

[Greg'sGarters]

I have discovered the trick to not getting bit by snakes! All you need to do is pour a little Listerine on your hands. I heard that if a snake bites you to pour listerine in their mouth, and it will get them to release their jaws as well as partially clean the wound (kinda sorta). But, if you put listerine on your hands in the first place, they are hesitant to bite! I heard this trick online, so I went and got my mom's listerine, and poured some on my hands, and then proceeded to pick up my "son of satin" burmese python. He struck but never bit! It worked like a miracle. I have heard that Listerine is safe in small doses for snakes, so if anyone has any facts proving this wrong please state it here because I love not getting bit, but also love my snakes health even more. If none, you should try it!

[guidofatherof5]

Personally I don't see bites from a garter as a problem. I also want my snake to want to come out and spend time with me. I want them to see/smell me as safe. Putting a repellent on isn't something that would work for me.;)

[thamneil]

I don't buy the whole listerine thing one bit. Sure, it may prevent feeding response bites, but the majority of bites are going to be defensive. A snake will do whatever it has to to defend its self. It's not gonna matter what you smell like when the snake is in a fight or flight situation.

I would also assume that with Narticines or more intelligent Colubrids, applying a negative odor on your hands would cause the animals to lose trust in you. Successfully keeping these animals in captivity is all about having a level of trust. Bites are bites, they're part of keeping snakes. It's up to us to deal with that.

[d_virginiana]

I wouldn't use it. I don't have anything big enough to make me worry about making it let go before it decides to. Like Steve said, part of the draw of garters is that they're so friendly. I want mine to come out and want to approach me.

I actually saw a video addressing the listerine thing earlier today. The guy in the video basically said that if you knew what you were doing you didn't need listerine to get a snake off your hand lol.

[-MARWOLAETH-]

As a general rule,it isn't good to pour chemicals on an animals head.

[Stefan-A]

The best way to not get bitten, is by not letting them bite you.

[Greg'sGarters]

Ok. Guys, I definitely appreciate the feedback on this because I wasn't sure about this one. :) I guess I'll just manually put up with my burmese python, I've done it before.

[CrazyHedgehog]

I had. Garter once that would bite as soon as the tank was open whether it was to feed, change water Etc. Chloe told me to try wearing thin rubber gloves, it stops the teeth really catching your skin, and the snake doesn't like the feel of the rubber so releases, after a month or so she just stopped biting

[Greg'sGarters]

With mean big snakes, I start out with really thick gloves and then whorl my way down the thickness all the way down to bare skin.

[ConcinusMan]

pour listerine in their mouth, and it will get them to release their jaws

Well more than 20 years ago people recommended using booze. Anyway, it's the ethyl alcohol that gets them to let go because it burns the mucous membrane of their mouth. Later that practice was abandoned for the most part, as cruel and unnecessary.

I don't want to potentially harm my snakes and I certainly don't want to put them in any pain or discomfort if I can avoid it. I discovered that pressing or tapping gently on the top of their head a few times makes them let go just as well as putting alcohol in their mouth.

As far as using it as a repellent to prevent getting bit... I don't really have any snakes that are all that aggressive in the first place, but if I did, I would accept the consequences that I'll probably get bit once in a while or I wouldn't keep them in the first place.

I would say no to the Listerine idea. Seems barbaric to me.

[Greg'sGarters]

People really used booze to get snakes off of them? I guess that would work. Although, if I kept a bottle of booze on my shelf my parents might get mad at me even if I said it's only for when I get bit (that might make it look even worse). Lol. Any of you guys have ideas of what to do if a big snake bites though?

[d_virginiana]

Well the alcohol isn't that much of a stretch from the listerine. Probably less hazardous; at least it IS meant to be consumed.

Maybe flipping them upside down depending on the size? Whenever I have to medicate or mess with my snakes' mouths I always flip them upside down first. It tends to make them very docile and they hold still much better. I've seen vets use that technique for medicating cats as well. It disorients them a little but doesn't really cause pain or distress. Might get one to release a bite.

[ConcinusMan]

Well the alcohol isn't that much of a stretch from the listerine.

Listerine is over 20 percent ethyl alcohol by volume (around 40 proof) ;). But it also contains methol and Eucalyptol which probably has a repellant effect.

[Greg'sGarters]

Maybe flipping them upside down depending on the size?

Nope, when Burmese Pythons bite, they hold on and coil. Listerine/cutting their head off is the only thing that I know works. AND I HAVE NOT AND NEVER WILL CUT A SNAKES HEAD OFF. So I thought listerine would be the best way to go.

[guidofatherof5]

People really used booze to get snakes off of them? I guess that would work. Although, if I kept a bottle of booze on my shelf my parents might get mad at me even if I said it's only for when I get bit (that might make it look even worse). Lol. Any of you guys have ideas of what to do if a big snake bites though?

I've heard running cold water on their head works. Worked on a large bull snake that gave me a good bite.;)

[Greg'sGarters]

It didn't work with the Burmese Python, once they bite they lock on. When my friend's burm bit my glove, we couldn't get it to let go, so I took off the glove and had him bring it to work the next day.

[Selkielass]

I have heard large snake keepers talk about working a credit card between upper teeth and skin, and then gently disengaging the lower jaw 'like peeling velcro' but I've never seen it done, and it sounds like it works best with two peole- in fact it was part of a podcast or thread where they discussed why they would never handle or feed a large snake without an assistant.

Listen to people who handle the big mean snakes and listen to as many voices as you can, not just the loudest ones offering a n easy solution- those are often the worst for the animal.

I keep garters (small ones at that) because I don't care to get chewed up by my pets.

[Greg'sGarters]

I keep burmese pythons because they have a spot in my heart. These are the snakes that I learned around and will always share s special place in my heart: Water Snakes, Garter Snakes, Rat Snakes, Burmese Pythons and Boa Constrictors.

[thamneil]

I was whacked by my seven foot Macklot's python a few weeks ago in a full on feeding response bite. Could have done all sorts of things but didn't want to ruin the poor girls appetite. Just sat there with her hanging off of my arm and braved it out.

She still ended up taking her rabbit after the whole ordeal! How big of a Burmese python do you have?

[ConcinusMan]

When my friend's burm bit my glove, we couldn't get it to let go, so I took off the glove and had him bring it to work the next day.

Well that was nice, but how did you get the snake to bring your glove back to you? :p

[Greg'sGarters]

Well that was nice, but how did you get the snake to bring your glove back to you? :p

I thought you knew, I am a direct descendant of Saint Patrick.I can summon snakes to my location. :D

[-MARWOLAETH-]

I thought you knew, I am a direct descendant of Saint Patrick.I can summon snakes to my location. :D
Could you bring some adders my way? I've yet to see one;)

[Greg'sGarters]

7977

*****poof*****

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Nope, when Burmese Pythons bite, they hold on and coil. Listerine/cutting their head off is the only thing that I know works. AND I HAVE NOT AND NEVER WILL CUT A SNAKES HEAD OFF. So I thought listerine would be the best way to go.


Take your snake over to the sink and run it's head under cold water. If that doesn't work after a minute or two, turn the hot tap on. When it starts to get warm, bob the snakes head under it quickly a few times. QUICKLY. And do not hold it there. You just want it to be uncomfortably warm so that the snake decides to let go. My first ever snake, my cali king, regularly used to SHOOM out of his hide, grab me and wrap me. No biggie, as he was just a 5 foot cali king, but it could get annoying with the blood and such. the ONLY way I could get him to let go was the water method. sometimes the cold water would work. sometimes only the warm water would. The worst bite I took was from my 6 foot male carpet python who struck out in feeding response when I was cleaning. He grabbed my hand and wrapped, HARD. Lots of blood. First.... well first I grabbed my camera and took a picture. Then I walked his butt up the stairs and under the water he went! Now that beast only gets handled with hook in hand, and I highly suggest you start using a hook until you get that burm under control. And you will want to, before it gets big enough to leave lacerations large enough to require stitches and sever major blood vessels!

Anyways... If I had a really big snake wrapping me I would consider listerine. Otherwise, it's not necessary at all. Taking the occasional bite is part of the hobby and even if you have the tamest snake in the world, you always need to be mentally prepared for that one time they do go for you, know your snake, and be prepared for it or take measures to prevent it. Especially if you are keeping an animal that grows to hundreds of pounds. Eventually there will come a time when it is no longer safe to handle your burm unsupervised.

[Greg'sGarters]

My worst non-venomous bite was the first day I started working at the pet store I used to work at. A blue spot timor monitor got my first finger and tore it. My manager told me not to panic if I got bit by anything. So I had blood RUSHING down my hand, as I walked to the counter and asked for a bandaid. The worst bite I ever got was from my copperhead. I milked him for his venom, I was wearing thick gloves so I couldn't feel anything. As I looked in the jar, he slithered a bit of my hand just enough to turn around and nail me in the thumb. Best way to describe it is being injected with a cool, numbing liquid that heats up until it feels like hot burning magma in my skin. Luckily it only left a brown dot on my thumb (where the fang hit [he was shedding a fang so he nailed me with one and only pricked me with the other as it wasn't fully out yet]) and I didn't go to the hospital.

[ConcinusMan]

I don't think you can count the monitor as your first non-venomous bite. If I'm not mistaken it was recently discovered that all monitors are indeed venomous, and even some iguanas.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

My worst non-venomous bite was the first day I started working at the pet store I used to work at. A blue spot timor monitor got my first finger and tore it. My manager told me not to panic if I got bit by anything. So I had blood RUSHING down my hand, as I walked to the counter and asked for a bandaid. The worst bite I ever got was from my copperhead. I milked him for his venom, I was wearing thick gloves so I couldn't feel anything. As I looked in the jar, he slithered a bit of my hand just enough to turn around and nail me in the thumb. Best way to describe it is being injected with a cool, numbing liquid that heats up until it feels like hot burning magma in my skin. Luckily it only left a brown dot on my thumb (where the fang hit [he was shedding a fang so he nailed me with one and only pricked me with the other as it wasn't fully out yet]) and I didn't go to the hospital.

you are extremely lucky... likely you took a dry bite due to having just milked the snake, or the snake chose to give you a dry bite, and the residual amounts of venom left from the milking likely caused that brown dot! A lot of people who get hit by a copper lose the digit!

[Greg'sGarters]

you are extremely lucky... likely you took a dry bite due to having just milked the snake, or the snake chose to give you a dry bite, and the residual amounts of venom left from the milking likely caused that brown dot! A lot of people who get hit by a copper lose the digit!

It was DEFINITELY not a dry bite but maybe reduced venom. I got dry bite by a copper when I was 5. My friend tried to catch it, and stepped on it's tail and it turned around and hit me in the leg. No pain, no hospital, no discoloration. I don't even think it took out it's fangs.

[ConcinusMan]

Sounds like you and your friends really need to stop messing around with copperheads. I think you've used up all your luck. :cool:

[Greg'sGarters]

Sounds like you and your friends really need to stop messing around with copperheads. I think you've used up all your luck. :cool:

We thought it was a water snake. This was before I had any knowledge of snakes lol. Now just in case I see one, I always bring a snake hook & snake tongs with me.

[-MARWOLAETH-]

Best way to describe it is being injected with a cool, numbing liquid that heats up until it feels like hot burning magma in my skin.
I had a similar sensation after I stood on a weaver fish(Echiichthys vipera).The enitial pain of the spines in my foot,was the most pain Ive ever felt but after that died down I simultaneosly feelt freezing and burning slowly creeping up my leg...I really should have looked were I was walking ;D

[thamneil]

We thought it was a water snake. This was before I had any knowledge of snakes lol. Now just in case I see one, I always bring a snake hook & snake tongs with me.

Understandable statement.


I milked him for his venom, I was wearing thick gloves so I couldn't feel anything.

So you had no handling equipment for a venomous snake, but you had a glove and the proper equipment to milk him? Why would you milk a snake if you thought it was a water snake? Wasn't the copperhead that bit you one of your animals?

[ConcinusMan]

He's talking about two different incidents. One bite was on the leg while herping,(thought it was a water snake) the other on the hand (while wearing gloves but apparently it pierced the glove) after milking. At least that's how I understood it.

[Greg'sGarters]

Understandable statement.



So you had no handling equipment for a venomous snake, but you had a glove and the proper equipment to milk him? Why would you milk a snake if you thought it was a water snake? Wasn't the copperhead that bit you one of your animals?


There were 2 different ones that bit me. There was one where I was 5 and me and my friend chased after it thinking it was a water snake. The second one I bought at a reptile show as a copperhead knowing it was venomous. We never caught the first one, it bit me and we left it alone. Thank god it was only a warning strike.

And to answer your question. You have to hold the snake to milk it. I had a lot of handling equipment right by my side, how do you think I pinned his head down?

[ConcinusMan]

how do you think I pinned his head down?


With a bottle of Listerine? :D

[Greg'sGarters]

With a bottle of Listerine? :D

Good one

[chris-uk]

What were you milking the copperhead for? When I was 15 I did some pretty stupid things, but I don't think my parents would have let me keep venomous snakes - in fact I'm certain of it, because in the UK you need 5 be licensed to keep dangerous wild animals (am I to understand that in New Jersey anyone can keep hot snakes?).
Regardless, what were you planning to do with the milked venom? Outside of a lab or medical setting there's not much that venom is useful for.

[Greg'sGarters]

What were you milking the copperhead for? When I was 15 I did some pretty stupid things, but I don't think my parents would have let me keep venomous snakes - in fact I'm certain of it, because in the UK you need 5 be licensed to keep dangerous wild animals (am I to understand that in New Jersey anyone can keep hot snakes?).
Regardless, what were you planning to do with the milked venom? Outside of a lab or medical setting there's not much that venom is useful for.


When we were younger we all did some dumb things. Milking the venomous snake I owned was one of them. I was going to try to use the venom to create a venom-resistant mouse. Before I get criticized for doing that, I know it is a dumb idea and almost definitely would have failed. And to answer your question, no you also need to be licensed to keep venomous snakes in NJ. That's why I will not start up with hots again until I can live in PA, because in PA, anyone can keep hots.

[ConcinusMan]

in PA, anyone can keep hots.

But many local harmless snakes are off limits. Makes perfect sense.:rolleyes:

[Greg'sGarters]

But many local harmless snakes are off limits. Makes perfect sense.:rolleyes:

In NJ you need a permit to own a little tiny house gecko but none for an ostrich or llama!!! Dead serious!!!

[chris-uk]

When we were younger we all did some dumb things. Milking the venomous snake I owned was one of them. I was going to try to use the venom to create a venom-resistant mouse. Before I get criticized for doing that, I know it is a dumb idea and almost definitely would have failed. And to answer your question, no you also need to be licensed to keep venomous snakes in NJ. That's why I will not start up with hots again until I can live in PA, because in PA, anyone can keep hots.

My advice would be to go to university (when you're old enough) and learn how to safely and ethically perform that sort of experiment, rather than just trying it at home because a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Given that you've had a number of garter escapes wouldn't you be better off keeping hots in a state where a veterinary inspection of your facilities and a licence are required? After all, imagine that the proximus you recovered yesterday was a cottonmouth, or something more dangerous.

[Greg'sGarters]

My advice would be to go to university (when you're old enough) and learn how to safely and ethically perform that sort of experiment, rather than just trying it at home because a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Given that you've had a number of garter escapes wouldn't you be better off keeping hots in a state where a veterinary inspection of your facilities and a licence are required? After all, imagine that the proximus you recovered yesterday was a cottonmouth, or something more dangerous.

No, keeping hots is not the only reason I am moving to PA. Land is cheaper, it is much less crowded, I know people there, more reptile shows, more likely to catch a garter or see cool wildlife, etc. Plus when I do start up with keeping hots again, I won't be using the same cages I use for garters. I would use a different type of cage, one that is much more secure. And just to let you guys know, I plan to major in herpetology in college, and I will not keep hots again until after that.

[Greg'sGarters]

And guys, I do have some experience with handling aggressive snakes already. I started out catching water snakes and working in a pet store with full grown burmese pythons. It's not like I'm just some guy who feels like keeping hots. I wouldn't do it if I didn't think I was ready. And vets don't inspect the house, New Jersey Department of Fish and Wildlife does. And I just don't feel like getting involved with them.

[thamneil]

That isn't "experience". I've spent plenty of time around nippy snakes and wouldn't even dream of keeping a "hot". The only snake that can get you ready for venomous are other venomous. Grow a little older, have a stable career and accommodations, and find a mentor. Working with someone else's specimens is the only preparation that's worth anything. Learn from their mistakes and try not to duplicate them.

[Greg'sGarters]

Well, I've already had a copperhead, I learned to...



Not milk it for venom
Use a snake hook
Always keep my eye on the snake
Handle it as little as possible and to only do so when ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY
WATCH OUT


And I don't know anybody else with venomous snakes except for my friend John.

[Greg'sGarters]

That isn't "experience".

I don't see how it isn't experience.

[Spankenstyne]

Not the right kind. Ideally you should apprentice under someone experienced (or at a lab/facility) where you will learn the proper procedures and protocols for caging, handling, and what to have ready in the case of emergency. Here's a very limited example: http://pub.extranet.fsu.edu/sites/safety/safetywiki/Wiki%20Documents/SLU%20Snake%20Safety.pdf

[guidofatherof5]

Not the right kind. Ideally you should apprentice under someone experienced (or at a lab/facility) where you will learn the proper procedures and protocols for caging, handling, and what to have ready in the case of emergency. Here's a very limited example: http://pub.extranet.fsu.edu/sites/safety/safetywiki/Wiki%20Documents/SLU%20Snake%20Safety.pdf

Agreed.

[thamneil]

Not the right kind. Ideally you should apprentice under someone experienced (or at a lab/facility) where you will learn the proper procedures and protocols for caging, handling, and what to have ready in the case of emergency. Here's a very limited example: http://pub.extranet.fsu.edu/sites/safety/safetywiki/Wiki%20Documents/SLU%20Snake%20Safety.pdf

Absolutely positively agreed.

[CrazyHedgehog]

What worries me here is:
Your occupation:Head of Reptilian Department at Wild Discoveries.

But you are 15? Shouldn't you be at school?
I know it sounds like everyone is on your back, but they want you to be safe, I am 45, been keeping snakes for nearly 30 years and I still make mistakes, with some snakes there is no room for mistakes!

[Greg'sGarters]

What worries me here is:
Your occupation:Head of Reptilian Department at Wild Discoveries.

But you are 15? Shouldn't you be at school?
I know it sounds like everyone is on your back, but they want you to be safe, I am 45, been keeping snakes for nearly 30 years and I still make mistakes, with some snakes there is no room for mistakes!

Yeah I gotta change that. I used to be the head but the place got shut down. Probably because of legal reasons. I actually ran the reptile, amphibian, arachnid, avian, and mammal departments. I would work on weekends by the way. Plus, some people just learn by self experience, I am one of those people.

[guidofatherof5]

"Hots" are not a self educating thing. Learn from others because one mistake on your own could mean death.

[Greg'sGarters]

I can learn some stuff from someone else. My friend used to keep rattlers, gaboons, copperheads, etc. He is the best I will get. He's the one who said that if I wanted a hot, copperheads were the way to go.

[guidofatherof5]

I question anyone who suggest to a young person as yourself to get a "hot".
I'm not trying to start an argument or cast any disparaging words on your friend but come on....
The only words you should be hearing right now in your life is "No hots", period.

[Greg'sGarters]

Honestly, I'm not sure why this topic is being discussed, I don't have any hots right now, and I'm not getting anymore until I'm at least 18 (More likely 25).

[guidofatherof5]

I can learn some stuff from someone else. My friend used to keep rattlers, gaboons, copperheads, etc. He is the best I will get. He's the one who said that if I wanted a hot, copperheads were the way to go.

Only responding to your post.

[Greg'sGarters]

Only responding to your post.

I honestly think that it is an outdated thread, it is not anyone's fault but mine. But I think that it is apparent where everyone stands with this topic.

[chris-uk]

Yeah I gotta change that. I used to be the head but the place got shut down. Probably because of legal reasons. I actually ran the reptile, amphibian, arachnid, avian, and mammal departments. I would work on weekends by the way. Plus, some people just learn by self experience, I am one of those people.

So you're only not the head of reptiles because the shop was shut down? No wonder the shop shut when they employ a 15 year-old weekend boy to head up a department... And by my reckoning the only animals that you weren't responsible for would have been fish? The shop's website looked quite professional when I looked yesterday. I'm not saying that youngsters can't have some knowledge about snakes, but a decent shop giving that responsibility to a teenager?

As for learning by experience, there are some things which should be learned with hands-on mentoring. And on this I'm with Steve - the guy that told you to start with a copperhead, as opposed to advising you that you shouldn't even be thinking about keeping a hot snake is too irresponsible to mentor anyone.

The reason this thread is still going is because as responsible reptile keepers we owe it to the hobby to make it clear to people who read the thread that there's some stuff in this thread that other youngsters shouldn't think about emulating. In the UK and incident with a minor being bitten by their venomous pet would be reported so negatively in the media that it would certainly tarnish reptile keeping as a hobby (which doesnt have a sparkling image anyway).

[Stefan-A]

And with those words, we end this discussion.