Possible red hypo?

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I picked this snake up from jason and he and i both thought it could be a red hypo. The dorsal and lateral stripes glow with a bluish tint to them. I love the way this snake looks so i wanted to see what you guys think. The pics do not do the snake justice though.

784578467847

[BUSHSNAKE]

looks 100% normal to me

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I think it's just a nicely colored animal. I find them just like this in one spot!

[BLUESIRTALIS]

7848Here is a pic of him with some others as soon as i pulled them out of the bag from shipping. Like i said the pics don't do the snake justice.

[BUSHSNAKE]

still looks normal to me, all those easterns look the same just different color and just as pale

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I promise he's not normal, i wish i could show you the snake in person.
still looks like a normal eastern...look at the two greener ones theyre just as light...look at the neck

[guidofatherof5]

Beautiful snake Shawn.

[BUSHSNAKE]

i would bet a million dollars its a normal

[BLUESIRTALIS]

And i would bet a million dollars that if he was yours he wouldn't be normal. Lol :D

i would bet a million dollars its a normal

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Thanks steve!
beautiful snake shawn.

[BUSHSNAKE]

And i would bet a million dollars that if he was yours he wouldn't be normal. Lol :D

lol...ok i did have an eastern that could be called a red hypo that blows yours away and i didnt call it a red hypo:P...ill post pictures for you

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I saw that snake on jason's original thread and it was nice, but im telling you if you saw this snake in person you would see what im talking about. The only way i know to put it is this snake glows. It is red with a goldish colored head, a peach colored belly, and a glowing bluish colored lateral and dorsal stripes.


lol...ok i did have an eastern that could be called a red hypo that blows yours away and i didnt call it a red hypo:p...ill post pictures for you

[BUSHSNAKE]

it sounds pretty

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

There is nothing wrong with the "normal" label... haha. I don't know why we strive so hard to apply special labels to snakes sometimes.... it's a beautiful animal! Like I said I know of a locale where you can find this exact look. Borderline hypo and all. Even that same exact stripe. In fact Tom also gave me a field collected adult male that looked like this as well. It had a few kinks along it's spine though. Come to PA, and I will take you to a place where you can see more like this one! Also some of them have brilliant, salmon pink bellies. And sometimes I find them like this but without a dorsal. But same idea... weird and pale... no black. The beauty of "normal" thamnophis is that they are rarely normal at all. There is so much variation even within one subspecies, it is amazing. I would be proud to have that snake in my collection. But I would not go crazy trying to label it.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Note that i put (possible red hypo?) in my thread. I'm not sure what to call him at this point. I have lots of normal garter snakes and morphs as well and would never try to put a label on a snake without proving it out. I love normal easterns as that is always what i caught as a kid, but this snake is not a normal. Hypo may not be the right term, but he is something different. I will try to get some better pics of him outside to see if i can capture his true colors. I have seen pics of reddish colored easterns including joe's and this guy looks nothing like them. I hope i can get some better pics that will showcase his colors.
there is nothing wrong with the "normal" label... Haha. I don't know why we strive so hard to apply special labels to snakes sometimes.... It's a beautiful animal! Like i said i know of a locale where you can find this exact look. Borderline hypo and all. Even that same exact stripe. In fact tom also gave me a field collected adult male that looked like this as well. It had a few kinks along it's spine though. Come to pa, and i will take you to a place where you can see more like this one! Also some of them have brilliant, salmon pink bellies. And sometimes i find them like this but without a dorsal. But same idea... Weird and pale... No black. The beauty of "normal" thamnophis is that they are rarely normal at all. There is so much variation even within one subspecies, it is amazing. I would be proud to have that snake in my collection. But i would not go crazy trying to label it.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Note that i put (possible red hypo?) in my thread. I'm not sure what to call him at this point. I have lots of normal garter snakes and morphs as well and would never try to put a label on a snake without proving it out. I love normal easterns as that is always what i caught as a kid, but this snake is not a normal. Hypo may not be the right term, but he is something different. I will try to get some better pics of him outside to see if i can capture his true colors. I have seen pics of reddish colored easterns including joe's and this guy looks nothing like them. I hope i can get some better pics that will showcase his colors.

I did note that. Note that I wasn't accusing you of anything... He IS something different! A different locale! That's what polymorphism is all about ;) I've got some pictures of some wild/collected easterns that would make your head spin! I have a field day finding cool colored thams. 90% of the wild population are plain, drab looking, black, brown and yellow sirtalis. it's finding the other exceptional specimens like this one, that last 10%, that is fun. I already know what you mean by his true colors though because I have seen snakes like this in person... and I agree.... photos don't do them justice. I used to do it too.... then I realized that what I am appreciating, is polymorphism at it's absolute best. I would definitely try and pair it with a female of a similar color and pattern. This look deserves preservation.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I know you wasn't accusing me of anything. Jason has seen hundreds of wildcaught garters from the area where this guy was caught and this was the first one he has seen like this. I have been keeping and breeding all kinds of snakes for years and i know how different locales look different, but all of the snakes he finds in his area makes this one look like an oddball. I plan to breed this guy this year in hopes of producing some more just like him in the future.
i did note that. Note that i wasn't accusing you of anything... He is something different! A different locale! That's what polymorphism is all about ;) i've got some pictures of some wild/collected easterns that would make your head spin! I have a field day finding cool colored thams. 90% of the wild population are plain, drab looking, black, brown and yellow sirtalis. It's finding the other exceptional specimens like this one, that last 10%, that is fun. I already know what you mean by his true colors though because i have seen snakes like this in person... And i agree.... Photos don't do them justice. I used to do it too.... Then i realized that what i am appreciating, is polymorphism at it's absolute best. I would definitely try and pair it with a female of a similar color and pattern. This look deserves preservation.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I have been keeping and breeding all kinds of snakes for years and i know how different locales look different, but all of the snakes he finds in his area makes this one look like an oddball.

Have been in this same boat... I have found some pretty weird looking things that were out of character for their area. The male that Tom gave me was a spitting image of this one... and he had told me a similar thing.... it was an oddball compared to the stuff he normally found.

[Selkielass]

Pretty.
Makes me think of the male I found last summer that I named 'Christmas'. Lots of green and red, reduced brown/ black. He is apparently a normal eastern, just more red and paler than the average around here.
Id love to hear if this low melanin type breeds true. Im allowing christmas and my normal eastern abby a chance to reproduce this spring.
If I get any babies, and they look pale, I will post about them.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Pretty.
Makes me think of the male I found last summer that I named 'Christmas'. Lots of green and red, reduced brown/ black. He is apparently a normal eastern, just more red and paler than the average around here.
Id love to hear if this low melanin type breeds true. Im allowing christmas and my normal eastern abby a chance to reproduce this spring.
If I get any babies, and they look pale, I will post about them.

As long as you selectively breed for it, just about any trait will breed true. Unless you are breeding ordinoes or amazon tree boas. Then you never know just what you might get!!!

[Greg'sGarters]

Eastern Garter Snakes are some of the hardest snakes to classify as a morph because the normal coloration has a VERY EXTREMELY WIDE RANGE!!! I once caught a garter snake that was literally a hot pink color. But she was still a normal. If you TRULY believe that this is a morph, you should get a standard normal, breed the 2 together, and breed the babies together. If the 3rd generation babies come out looking like this snake, you have a morph, if they come out looking normal, you have a nicely colored snake. Remember, it is very hard almost impossible to claim a morph in an eastern garter that has not been proven out through breeding. Hope this helps!

[twgrosmick]

Eastern Garter Snakes are some of the hardest snakes to classify as a morph because the normal coloration has a VERY EXTREMELY WIDE RANGE!!! I once caught a garter snake that was literally a hot pink color. But she was still a normal. If you TRULY believe that this is a morph, you should get a standard normal, breed the 2 together, and breed the babies together. If the 3rd generation babies come out looking like this snake, you have a morph, if they come out looking normal, you have a nicely colored snake. Remember, it is very hard almost impossible to claim a morph in an eastern garter that has not been proven out through breeding. Hope this helps!


A dominant trait will prove out in the first year of breeding so this isn't necessarily true. I agree that it is a normal but none the less selective breeding could produce a killer looking snake. I would be curious to see pics of a hot pink snake.... I just don't believe it....

[mikem]

Those stripes really do glow in person! Good luck with him, he's an awesome looking snake :cool:

[Greg'sGarters]

Unfortunately the hot pink garter died. I didn't know anything about brumation and she died while I was brumating her. This was 2 years ago.


A dominant trait will prove out in the first year of breeding so this isn't necessarily true. I agree that it is a normal but none the less selective breeding could produce a killer looking snake. I would be curious to see pics of a hot pink snake.... I just don't believe it....

I don't know of any dominant garter snake morphs though.

[thamneil]

Unfortunately the hot pink garter died. I didn't know anything about brumation and she died while I was brumating her. This was 2 years ago.



I don't know of any dominant garter snake morphs though.

The flame and erythristic morphs of the eastern garter can be reproduced in the first generation.

[Greg'sGarters]

Oh, wow. Never knew that flame and erythristic were dominant. Although in this case, we are sure that this isn't a flame or erythristic if any morph at all

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I will be breeding him this year! I think i may breed him to this girl and a few normals.


7877



eastern garter snakes are some of the hardest snakes to classify as a morph because the normal coloration has a very extremely wide range!!! I once caught a garter snake that was literally a hot pink color. But she was still a normal. If you truly believe that this is a morph, you should get a standard normal, breed the 2 together, and breed the babies together. If the 3rd generation babies come out looking like this snake, you have a morph, if they come out looking normal, you have a nicely colored snake. Remember, it is very hard almost impossible to claim a morph in an eastern garter that has not been proven out through breeding. Hope this helps!

[Selkielass]

Soo grey!
It will be interesting to see which, if either of the parents they resemble.
My Abby is an absolutely middle of the road normal, and all the other garters I've seen in the apiary I found her in arevery similar, so if I get washed out or red babies, its all daddy's doing.

[ConcinusMan]

looks 100% normal to me

Exactly what I was thinking. Nice color though! Pretty snake.

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachments/general-talk/7845d1357323330-possible-red-hypo-shawns-pics-3-064.jpg


I would be curious to see pics of a hot pink snake.... I just don't believe it....

I've seen a "pastel" shade of pink on an eastern before.

[kimbosaur]

Question: Is a "morph" only a morph is it caused by a genetic mutation? I ask because I'm confused about the flame "morph". Weren't they created by selectively breeding redder normals?

[ConcinusMan]

Question: Is a "morph" only a morph is it caused by a genetic mutation? I ask because I'm confused about the flame "morph". Weren't they created by selectively breeding redder normals?

I was going to mention something about that but I didn't want to confuse the issue. Technically, they're all morphs. But generally when we say "morph" in the hobby, we mean a snake that appears outwardly aberrant or distinct, and that aberrant/distinct look has a genetic link and so it can be reproduced reliably and predictably.

[Invisible Snake]

Flames are a naturally occurring morph in Canada.

[ConcinusMan]

Sort of. The flame morph you see in the hobby are a bit more refined. They are descended from that morph in Canada but have changed over time due to artificial selection. As a result, you see flames in captivity which have a look that can't be found in the wild.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Got some babies from this guy this year that are just neat looking and can't wait to see them as adults! They color up more and more with each shed like the erythristic easterns! I added some similis in the group pic for contrast! 97889787

[mikem]

Here's a couple pics of one of mine.

http://i.imgur.com/wn7N3O1.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/jd76hai.jpg

[BUSHSNAKE]

Here's a couple pics of one of mine.

http://i.imgur.com/wn7N3O1.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/jd76hai.jpg
hey mike can you post some pictures of the illinois babies

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Got some babies from this guy this year that are just neat looking and can't wait to see them as adults! They color up more and more with each shed like the erythristic easterns! I added some similis in the group pic for contrast! 97889787

They're gorgeous. They look just like the babies that the red females at my favorite spot throw. All pretty and pale and stuff. Do any of them have a rosy rust color on their neck/cheek area?

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Thanks shannon!you should see them now! These pics are a few months old when they were first born! I have to buy me a new camera (dropped mine in the ocean on vacation). They are very nice and are turning a nice red color! Scott saw them at the show and he picked up a few from me as well. He really liked the male alot! I bred this guy to a normal female and all of the babies turned out red to some degree! I can't wait to see what selective breeding will do with these colors!
they're gorgeous. They look just like the babies that the red females at my favorite spot throw. All pretty and pale and stuff. Do any of them have a rosy rust color on their neck/cheek area?

[BLUESIRTALIS]

This male has been in with 2 girls so fingers cossed!

[ConcinusMan]

They look like regular easterns to me, but damn pretty ones!

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I realize that people are always going to call this guy a nice colored normal and that's fine, but I wish you could see this guy in person! I will continue to breed him as long as he is thriving and doing well! Scott, Mike, and I all have 2013 babies from this guy so I can't wait to raise them up and breed them back to one another. This post was to update the status of this male in case anyone was interested, but not to argue whether he Is a morph or not. He is a very pretty snake so if I can produce more like him I will be 100% satisfied!
They look like regular easterns to me, but damn pretty ones!

[ConcinusMan]

"I realize that people are always going to call this guy a nice colored normal and that's fine" Not a dang thing wrong with that. A flame is a "nice colored normal". ;) If you work on line breeding you can select for even better color to enhance the look and get your own unique line going. Who knows, maybe this "hypo" is a visual het for something. Only one way to find out; line breed.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I'm working on it! lol! He bred that pale colored female in the pic and locked up over a month ago, but she doesn't appear to be gravid and I only have 2 females for him this year. I got a trio 2013 from him and Mike and Scott has some as well so maybe they will go next year.
"I realize that people are always going to call this guy a nice colored normal and that's fine" Not a dang thing wrong with that. A flame is a "nice colored normal". ;) If you work on line breeding you can select for even better color to enhance the look and get your own unique line going. Who knows, maybe this "hypo" is a visual het for something. Only one way to find out; line breed.