Need help Identifying Oregon snake, Wild Albino garter?

[AlbinoSquiggle]

This is my first post but I have spent much time reading through these forums and have found a LOT of useful advice and information.
I live in Eugene, Oregon and my story starts around June/July of this year. I was working out in the garden when I noticed something light colored move under some plants. I began searching to soon discover a light colored snake. I had no clue what kind it was only that it had to be a baby since it was so small. At the time she was approximately 4" and skinnier than a night crawler. I brought her into the house and made a small home for her in a tupperware bin. I spent several days researching how to properly care for her and possibly what type she may be. After about a week I released her back into the garden figuring she had better odds of survival in the wild.
As the summer wore on I encountered her many more times as I worked int he garden. I was happy to see that she wasn't scared off by being captured for a week.
Eventually I decided to catch her again and house her to eliminate the risk of another critter eating her or meeting her fate at blades of the mower or tiller.
Currently she is housed in a 10 gal tank with a ZooMed UTH (sidemounted). Daylight is simulated with 2 - 12 volt, 18 watt incandecent lights. Substrate is typical aquarium gravel, hiding spots on both sides. I feed her worms cut into bite-size pieces and every couple feedings she is fed a couple small slugs ( somewhere I read they are more nutritious).
She has shed 3 times since I have had her, not sure if she shed at all while she was free. Not sure of her lenght but I would say approximately 9-11"
I want to do all I can to ensure her continued survival and someday maybe even breed her to keep her genetics going.
The questions I have are:
Is she a true albino or just lighter colored.

Is she a checkered garter, or what?

Can you handle garters too much? For example, is handling them everyday too stressful?

I started my worm farm from worms in the garden are OK to eat?

Should I have a heat lamp as well as the UTH?

How often should I mist the tank? I try to mist occasionally but have no set approach currently.

Thanks in advance for any help! :)

[Greg'sGarters]

This might help you out a bit with the care...

Garter Snake Care Sheet (http://www.thamnophis.com/index.php?page=caresheet)

As far as species identification, I don't think it is any subspecies of Thamnophis sirtalis, so it is out of my area of expertise. If I had to take a guess, I would guess Thamnophis atratus hydrophilus (Oregon Garter Snake) or Thamnophis elegans vagrans​ (Wandering Garter Snake). If you want more information, you should send a private message to Richard. His username on here is Concinnusman. I believe he lives in Oregon, and is an expert with local garters. I once sent him a picture of my Oregon Red-spotted Garter, and he told me where it's bloodline originated! He is your go to man. Hope this helps!

[snake man]

Welcome and first off I would change the substrate as soon as possible gravel is no good for them, heres what I use (http://www.entirelypets.com/zoomedsnakebed25qt.html?mr:trackingCode=4F978A05-EC27-DF11-9DA0-002219319097&mr:referralID=NA&mr:adType=pla&mr:ad=11329624270&mr:keyword=&mr:match=&mr:filter=19880599990&origin=pla&gclid=CK--5Oufs7QCFQu0nQodDCIA6Q). I might be wrong but it almost looks like you have an albino radix, radix being the most common garter. You can hold them very often and once a day is ok, personally after I feed my snakes I will not hold them for the rest of the day, but it should not be to stressful if you are careful and gentle. Certain worms will be toxic to your snake read the caresheet (http://www.thamnophis.com/index.php?page=caresheet) to clarify this. The UTH should be ok to provide heat, however the pad sould only be on half of the tank and reach no more than 100 degrees F. You can mist when you feel you need to I only mist if the tanks looking extra dry or one of my snakes is preparing to shed. Good luck and I am looking forward to seeing you around the forums.

[Light of Dae]

Looks like a possible Radix, maybe a eastern I'm not sure... But I do know that it looks like a T+ Albino. Very beautiful n rare to find in the wild as their light color makes it really easy for prey to spot them.
Makes a nice light snack lol

Gravel is a bad idea as there is no absorption n it is very bad for scale rot n general bad heath. A lot of people favor aspen, but I find it very dry, as well it is not safe to feed on... I've used sand(very bad choice), aspen, coco husk, paper towel, crinkle cut colored paper, Newspaper pellets. My current set up is my favorite yet. I've got paper towel on the bottom as a liner (makes for easy cleaning) Then I've got Paper Pellets on top of that. I use some crinkle cut paper for ground cover.

Paper pellets are VERY easy to spot clean and I feed all my snakes on it without them ingesting it, I love it. Best stuff I've seen/used yet, and cheaper then anything else. Some of my snakes even borrow in it.

771377147715

[ssssnakeluvr]

wandering garter, and looks like a t+ albino. easterns and radix aren't in oregon. very nice find!!!

[guidofatherof5]

T.radix doesn't range in Oregon.

I'm guessing albinoT. e. vagrans (Wandering garter snake)
Here is a link to the forum care sheet. Any questioned not answer can be posted to the forum.
Be sure to introduce yourself in the "Welcome Lounge"


Garter Snake Forum - Garter Caresheet (http://www.thamnophis.com/index.php?page=caresheet)

[Invisible Snake]

Wow great find!! She is beautiful!

[ProXimuS]

Awesome find!! I think that is by far the darkest T+ albino I've ever seen(not that I've seen any in real life). Here is a link to a thread about another T+ albino wandering: http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/garter-snake-lounge/9135-albino-wandering.html There is also a T- albino towards the end of the thread.

Definitely check out our caresheet that's been provided. I would suggest getting a thermometer and a humidity guage. "Moderate" humidity works fine for them. If the humidity goes anywhere below 40 you can mist.

[AlbinoSquiggle]

Thank you all so much for the replies!

I figured her color was kinda rare and that she would make an easy target, which eventually led to me wanting to make the safest home I could for her.
I typically handle her before I feed her so she doesn't barf her worm back up but I try to handle her everyday or two so she knows I'm not trying to eat her. :)
The care sheet has been very helpful, almost too much good info. ;) It's now book marked and set to favorites!
I love the pic of your little friends head poking out of the pellets!
After reading your responses and the caresheet, I pulled all the gravel out and put in a layer of paper towels, pay day is Friday so I will buy a humidity guage and paper pellets then. The last thing I would want to do is cause my little buddy any harm.

Thanks again everyone and Happy Holidays!

[i_heart_sneakie_snakes]

She is downright gorgeous!!! She is so lucky you found her :)

[guidofatherof5]

A very special and unique snake. Best of luck with it and the future breeding you might do.

[thamneil]

Very nice snake. You should consider yourself extremely lucky to be the caretaker of such a magnificent animal.

[AlbinoSquiggle]

Here are a few more pics of her. I tried to get a clear one of her tail but she wasn't cooperating very well this morning. :)

[guidofatherof5]

Beautiful snake.
Underside tail is definitely needed but I'm going to say female from that side view.;)
If I'm wrong I'll say male:D

[Invisible Snake]

That is a beautiful specimen! You must breed her in the future :)

[AlbinoSquiggle]

LOL odds are 50:50 that you're right. ;)
I'll try to get a clear pic of her belly tomorrow, I just finished feeding her about 20 mins ago.

I would definitely like to breed her in the future, I know she is still far too young still so I'm just trying to keep her happy and healthy.
I have been in awe since the I first found her, I just wish she was a bit more cuddly sometimes. lol

[kimbosaur]

That is one beautiful snake!

[AlbinoSquiggle]

Also I found this link lastnight. Probably the closest picture match I have found online.
Kinda makes me wonder if Gary isn't the result of someone releasing a captive breed albino.
www[dot]albinogartersnake[dot]com/price_silver.html

[snake man]

Either way she is a great find.

[ProXimuS]

I'm just noticing now....but are her eyes red or brown? They seem like maybe they are brown in the last two pics.

[AlbinoSquiggle]

Yea I noticed her eyes in the pics, I'm sure it has something to do with the angles and lighting. When I have her out doors or in brighter light she has very red eyes. It's been about 3-4 weeks since her last shed and I have notice her eyes don't seem to blue like the other snakes at she'd time so that may have something to do with it as well. I will get a few more pics of her eyes when I get belly pics tomorrow.

[AlbinoSquiggle]

Here are a couple more pics that I had taken earlier, to give you a better idea of her eye color. She also has an almost metallic blue tint in the right light and at the right angle. You can kinda see it a bit in the first 2 pictures just behind and over her eyes, hard to capture with my cruddy camera. :P

[ProXimuS]

The blue colors on the snakes can be hard to capture on camera. As for the eyes going blue before a shed, since albinos have red eyes, their eyes usually turn a sort of light purple color rather than blue.

She is just so pretty:)

[AlbinoSquiggle]

I love her! :) I want to hold her all the time but have to hold myself back so she can sleep and eat. LOL
I wish I had saved all her skins
Her and her friends have already been 10 times more active since I changed out the substrate for paper towels covered in shredded paper! Gary was borrowing her head through it like she was trying to find some munchies. :)

[guidofatherof5]

I've never felt comfortable doing ID's on the garters of the northwest. I originally said I thought this was an albino wandering garter but am now leaning towards an albino Northwestern (T.ordinoides).
I sent Richard a PM to see if he'll take a look at it.
If it is a albino Northwestern it is a very rare snake.

[AlbinoSquiggle]

I also PM'ed Richard (Concinnusman)?
The lighting is terrible but here is a little video of her feeding earlier. She will eat out of my hand most the time as well as my red-striped girl but the other one is still pretty shy. So far no bites... :D

Ohhhhh it won't let me upload the file, too large. I'll make a better one next feeding and post it on my youtube account and link it from there.

[Invisible Snake]

I shared the picture of the albino on the garter snake Facebook group and Richard posted this:

"A heavily T POS albino IMO. 8 upper labials and depending on location in Oregon then it's likely T. e. elegans or vagrans. small narrow head and 6 or 7 upper labials, then it's T. ordinoides. What's the upper labial count? NICE FIND!"

[AlbinoSquiggle]

Ok here's a youtube link of her eating... lol www[dot]youtube[dot]com/watch?v=AIUzh--WZWo

As far as I can tell it looks like 7 but maybe only 6 I can't really tell.
Here's a couple pics of her face but they might be a bit too blurry.
Her eyes almost look normal from a slightly lower angle. lol

[guidofatherof5]

Hope this helps the count.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//756/12342.gif

[guidofatherof5]

I got 7 and 7, upper(supralabials) and lower(infralabials) respectively.

[Invisible Snake]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIUzh--WZWo

[AlbinoSquiggle]

Ahh hah! Thank you for linking that! It tells me I don't have permission or something about the number of links I'm trying to add. :P
That pic definitely helped. I wasn't sure how far back to count.
So based on the upper and lower count she is likely a T. ordinoides?

Either way I hope she lives a long and happy life! :)

[AlbinoSquiggle]

Ok, let's see if this video link works...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3lfnDqWqm0

This is a video I found while looking through my pics from earlier this year.

Edit: YAY! The video link worked! ;)

[BLUESIRTALIS]

She looks like a t+ albino ordinoides to me. What an awesome snake and such a rare find!

[ProXimuS]

Ok I just asked this on the welcome thread, but if this is an albino ordinoides, would it be the first, or at least the first known?

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I know of a couple other albinos, but this may be the first t+ albino. I hope richard will chime in on this because he knows more about northwesterns.
ok i just asked this on the welcome thread, but if this is an albino ordinoides, would it be the first, or at least the first known?

[ssssnakeluvr]

I've never felt comfortable doing ID's on the garters of the northwest. I originally said I thought this was an albino wandering garter but am now leaning towards an albino Northwestern (T.ordinoides).
I sent Richard a PM to see if he'll take a look at it.
If it is a albino Northwestern it is a very rare snake.

Hey Steve.... look at the very first pic... right next to a wandering garter. patterning is too big for ordinoides... they have rows of small spots alont the stripes generally, not big checkered patterns like this one. =)

[AlbinoSquiggle]

She does have a very similar pattern to the brown and yellow wandering garter. I actually kept that wandering garter (before I knew anything about the subgroups) because her pattern was so much more similar to Gary's than any of the others I had caught. I then kept the red-striped one cause she was the only one with that pattern and colors that I had found.
Here are some better pics to compare their patterns. It may just be hard to tell as the brown is pretty dark, when she sheds she almost looks a dull black over her whole body.
Also a these pics are more clear of her eyes and you can really see the red. The previous pictures were taken in the bathroom while these new ones were taken in their home which is right by a window.

[guidofatherof5]

Any albino wanderings I've see don't have the pronounced lateral blotches.
Here's one owned by member Woody44
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg90/woody06r6/DSC01112.jpg

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I still say that the red stripe, the dark colored, and the albino all in that pic are northwesterns. The pic that steve posted is an albino wandering. I know that most ordinoides have faint patterns, but some ordinoides have the checkered pattern.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Look at some of the pics of northwesterns and you will see that same pattern on some of them. The small head on that snake and the pattern on the face is northwestern. I first thought it was another wandering, but something didn't look right so after looking at all your pics and pics of northwesterns i strongly think she is a northwestern.

[Invisible Snake]

If it is a wandering, you should know they have been reported to be cannibalistic

[BLUESIRTALIS]

This is such a neat looking snake! I hope you produce more of these in the future!

[Invisible Snake]

Richard posted this on the FB garter snakes group:

"I think this is the same snake that was posted to the forum a while back. Never did get an answer on the labial count there either. If this is T. ordinoides than it would be the first and only T POS ever found. However, there have been plenty of this type found in T. e. vagrans. If I remember right though, this one is out of vagrans range. There are lots of places in Oregon where T. e. elegans has patterning very similar to vagrans and they often get confused for vagrans when they are really T. e. elegans. Upper labial count and location where found, would settle the question but from what I know right now, I think it's T. e. elegans. The willamette valley morph gets misidentified as T. e. vagrans or "intergrades" all the time because of the similar spotted pattern."

Here's a link to the FB group,

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2343260986/

[AlbinoSquiggle]

I'll try to keep everyone up-to-date with pics and such.
I definitely don't want her genetics lost so I will work with breeding her when she gets old enough.

Here are a few pics I had taken when I decided to keep her and I went on a spree catching snakes from our rock pile.
I let the majority go fairly shortly after these pics.
I'm sitting here wondering if Gary's parents are possibly still anywhere in the area...

[guidofatherof5]

We still need that under tail photo, Please.
Uncooperative snake can be set on a piece of gl***(glass coffee table tops work great) to make the photo easier to get.;)

[AlbinoSquiggle]

:) Sorry forgot about tail pics. Here are a couple of the clearest I can get.

[-MARWOLAETH-]

1st male 2nd female. Probably better to wait for the experts I'm just practicing :D

[AlbinoSquiggle]

LOL Hey at least you know you will be right either way. ;)

[ProXimuS]

Aren't those pictures of the same snake?

[-MARWOLAETH-]

<-- NUMPTY! *facepalm* I say male :D

[AlbinoSquiggle]

Aren't those pictures of the same snake?

LOL yea... One with flash and one without. Either way it's gotta be a male or female. ;)

I'm still way too new to this.

[guidofatherof5]

Female, both. Nice taper.

[ConcinusMan]

wandering garter, and looks like a t+ albino. easterns and radix aren't in oregon. very nice find!!!

I answered this on facebook first. Not a wandering. Scale configuration is all wrong and there aren't enough upper labial scales. The head has all the characteristics of T. ordinoides.


I've never felt comfortable doing ID's on the garters of the northwest. I originally said I thought this was an albino wandering garter but am now leaning towards an albino Northwestern (T.ordinoides).
I sent Richard a PM to see if he'll take a look at it.
If it is a albino Northwestern it is a very rare snake.

That is correct. I'm sure it's a T. ordinoides. The past few years have been just incredible for albino ordies. Two T- albinos found in the last two years, and now this albino, making it three now that are in captivity but the location of one is unknown.

It's not only rare, but it's the first T positive northwestern ever found that I'm aware of, and certainly the only one in captivity. The last suspected T Positive (found in Kent, WA last year) turned out to have 8 upper labials so that one is a wandering garter, not a northwestern.

I'm pretty sure it's a female, and it's a T positive albino Thamnophis ordinoides. Sounds like you're caring for it properly. Keep up the diet of night crawlers and slugs. NO RED WIGGLERS /TROUT WORMS! They can benefit from damp hides and really don't need much heat. A basking area of 80-85 is good enough but the cool end should be in the low 70's. Better to keep them too cool than to error too warm. I sincerely hope some effort will be made in the future to breed her but I think she's too young/small right now.

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachments/garter-snake-lounge/7756d1356559675-need-help-identifying-oregon-snake-wild-albino-garter-101_0033.jpg

Those are all northwestern garters. Note they have the same spotted pattern and head pattern as your albino. If there was one albino in your yard, there might be more and certainly some normal looking snakes (hets) that carry the gene. The baby had to inherit the gene from both parents in order to show the trait.

I have forwarded the report and photos to Dr. Robert Mason, Professor of Zoology, OSU so it can be recorded. This might be the first report of this type of albino in this species. All others that I'm aware of, were very pale T - albinos with no spotting, just yellow stripes.

[AlbinoSquiggle]

That is very cool! I will make breeding her a priority when she is old/big enough. I don't have enough room or time to breed many other snakes but I will collect some others from the yard this spring to find her a male. I also have my dad on the look out around his house, which is also in Eugene. Last summer he found a bright orange snake under a board but didn't bother messing with it. I asked him to catch them this year or call me to come catch them.
I have made an effort over the last 4-5 years to encourage snakes in the garden to keep out pests. This summer I could see 3 or more a day when I would tend to the garden. At the edge of the garden is a fairly large rock pile that they love to hang around.
The picture that has quite a few snakes in it was only a portion of what I had caught over the summer. I found so many babies roaming the yard and garden but the majority looked nearly identical in pattern and color so didn't interest me as much. I also didn't want to have so many snakes that I couldn't care for them all so I limited myself. :)

Ohh and I meant to ask, If I keep feeding earthworms and slugs should I still use a vitamin supplement? Or are the slugs and worms close enough to a natural diet to be healthy or simply to survive?
If it's bare minimum for worms and slugs then I will make sure I grab some vitamins tomorrow. I want her long, lean, and healthy. :)

[guidofatherof5]

It is definitely best for her to wait until she is mature. Don't rush the breeding.
She is important and keeping her healthy is best.

[ConcinusMan]

Last summer he found a bright orange snake under a board but didn't bother messing with it.

That was most likely a northwestern ringneck snake. Very common in the southern Willamette Valley. You can hardly lift any debris without finding them or several early in the warm season. I don't recommend trying to keep them. They can be difficult and would just hide all the time even if they did do OK in captivity. Hard to keep alive and not very rewarding if you do manage it.

http://www.californiaherps.com/snakes/images/diadophis2shastae.jpg



I have made an effort over the last 4-5 years to encourage snakes in the garden to keep out pests. This summer I could see 3 or more a day when I would tend to the garden. At the edge of the garden is a fairly large rock pile that they love to hang around.
The picture that has quite a few snakes in it was only a portion of what I had caught over the summer. I found so many babies roaming the yard and garden but the majority looked nearly identical in pattern and color so didn't interest me as much. I also didn't want to have so many snakes that I couldn't care for them all so I limited myself. :)

Ohh and I meant to ask, If I keep feeding earthworms and slugs should I still use a vitamin supplement? Or are the slugs and worms close enough to a natural diet to be healthy or simply to survive?
If it's bare minimum for worms and slugs then I will make sure I grab some vitamins tomorrow. I want her long, lean, and healthy. :)

It sounds to me like your yard is probably a den area. They're probably spending the winter under those rocks. So, you would see a lot of snakes concentrated in the area particularly in spring and fall. But if you keep the grass high and keep plenty of cover vegetation around where slugs can hide, then you'll have snakes around all summer. That's about all you can do to encourage them but it sounds like they already live there.

I wouldn't worry about the supplements. Can easily do more harm than good. I rarely, if ever use them. If it isn't broke, don't try to fix it. She should grow well and do just fine on what you're already doing. Just keep up a steady supply of worms and slugs as best you can, and feed rather frequently. Others might have a different opinion but mine is that they don't need the supplement. Northwesterns can live long healthy lives on just worms and slugs. It helps with nutrition if the worms are feeding on rich organic composted matter such as composted leaves but other than that, I wouldn't worry about it.

If the snake is eating well and has had several complete sheds in one piece which means she's growing and healthy, then don't do anything different. She looks to be in perfect health to me.;)

The only other thing I can say is don't keep cycling in new snakes from the yard in and out, and certainly don't keep them like you have in that photo. Keep her by herself or with one or two other apparently healthy snakes. Overcrowding and failing to quarantine from others outside can encourage and spread disease. Especially watch out for blister disease. These snakes are very prone to it. Keeping them on constantly damp and/or dirty substrate causes small white fluid-filled blisters to form on their underside so watch out for that and treat it early if does appear. Keep the substrate dry and that won't happen.

[AlbinoSquiggle]

I wouldn't worry about the supplements. Can easily do more harm than good. I rarely, if ever use them. If it isn't broke, don't try to fix it. She should grow well and do just fine on what you're already doing. Just keep up a steady supply of worms and slugs as best you can, and feed rather frequently. Others might have a different opinion but mine is that they don't need the supplement. Northwesterns can live long healthy lives on just worms and slugs. It helps with nutrition if the worms are feeding on rich organic composted matter such as composted leaves but other than that, I wouldn't worry about it.

If the snake is eating well and has had several complete sheds in one piece which means she's growing and healthy, then don't do anything different. She looks to be in perfect health to me.;)

The only other thing I can say is don't keep cycling in new snakes from the yard in and out, and certainly don't keep them like you have in that photo. Keep her by herself or with one or two other apparently healthy snakes. Overcrowding and failing to quarantine from others outside can encourage and spread disease. Especially watch out for blister disease. These snakes are very prone to it. Keeping them on constantly damp and/or dirty substrate causes small white fluid-filled blisters to form on their underside so watch out for that and treat it early if does appear. Keep the substrate dry and that won't happen.

Thanks you so much for the great information!!!
I was kinda worried after reading about supplements and I didn't want her to have a calcium deficiency or anything of that nature. Somewhere I had read that slugs help to provide that calcium naturally and have been including slugs in her diet every since.

All of her sheds were in complete pieces and with some more great advice from others on here, I changed out the substrate so hopefully that will help prevent the blisters. I also tend to keep them more on the dry side than on the wet side, they aren't fish after all. ;)

I will definitely keep any other snakes in quarantine for a month or so before introducing them but I felt that the 3 I kept was more than enough for the 10 gal tank I have.
After the discussions here I will be searching for large used tanks to give a better home as they grow. I don't want to risk cannibalism so I will make 3 the max per home but if I can I will have Gary a home all her own. :)

[guidofatherof5]

Garters seem to (like/have less stress) when they have a buddy.

[ConcinusMan]

There is no cannibalism in northwesterns but you should be careful about feeding in groups. they tend to fight and injure each other, causing mouth infections.

Now I'm just wondering how long it's going to take before this one disappears short of breeding age.http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif All the others have.

[guidofatherof5]

There is no cannibalism in northwesterns but you should be careful about feeding in groups. they tend to fight and injure each other, causing mouth infections.

Now I'm just wondering how long it's going to take before this one disappears short of breeding age.:rolleyes: All the others have.

Well, that's positive thinking.:D

[AlbinoSquiggle]

HAHA Well after finding out that the one snake could climb glass and escaped, I got a locking screen lid. I don't want them escaping. I feel I took a large portion of nature out of the picture when I decided to keep her. If she was taken out of her habitat then reintroduced she wont know real world dangers so now it's my duty to keep her healthy and safe.

I try to make sure they are separated or at least on opposite sides of the tank before feeding. When I first started caring for them I witnessed 2 them try to eat the same worm and had to pinch the worm in half real quick. I also started giving them shorter pieces after that. LOL

If I ever feel I can no longer give her the care she needs/deserves, I will not release her, I will put her up for adoption on here or something. :)

[snake man]

I am sure alot of people would jump at that opportunity if it came down to that.

[AlbinoSquiggle]

I am sure alot of people would jump at that opportunity if it came down to that.

I'm not trying to get anyone hopes up because I really like her a LOT! I just wanted to let everyone know that she won't just be released because I get "bored" with her or something lame like that.
She just gives me this look and I say "Ok, I'll brb with your snack." She's already got me trained. ;)

[guidofatherof5]

HAHA Well after finding out that the one snake could climb glass and escaped, I got a locking screen lid. I don't want them escaping. I feel I took a large portion of nature out of the picture when I decided to keep her. If she was taken out of her habitat then reintroduced she wont know real world dangers so now it's my duty to keep her healthy and safe.

I try to make sure they are separated or at least on opposite sides of the tank before feeding. When I first started caring for them I witnessed 2 them try to eat the same worm and had to pinch the worm in half real quick. I also started giving them shorter pieces after that. LOL

If I ever feel I can no longer give her the care she needs/deserves, I will not release her, I will put her up for adoption on here or something. :)

I think you are doing fine. She probably would never make it to an adult in the wild. It's bad enough being a happy meal for a lot of animals but to be lightly colored it's even harder to stay unnoticed.

[ConcinusMan]

Thing is, they don't seem to be making it to adult in captivity either! Hope this one is different, but I always do. Whatever you do don't let it go to something dumb like the last albino I showed you in the other thread. It simply escaped. 100% preventable.

It was doing so well too.:mad:

[AlbinoSquiggle]

It's bad enough being a happy meal...

LMAO! I almost fell out of my chair laughing!


Thing is, they don't seem to be making it to adult in captivity either! Hope this one is different, but I always do. Whatever you do don't let it go to something dumb like the last albino I showed you in the other thread. It simply escaped. 100% preventable.

It was doing so well too.:mad:

When shes unattended the lid is locked. I would hate to have her or any of the others escape.

Here's a video from her meal today. She just got one rather large piece of worm today so it took her a bit more effort to eat this one and for the first time she tried going for my finger!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr0IP0PID14&amp;feature=youtu.be

[guidofatherof5]

Good video. Thanks for posting it.

[AlbinoSquiggle]

I will try to make a bunch more videos and pics, I may not be able to hand feed her when she gets bigger. :p

[ConcinusMan]

Just wanted to clear one thing up. These aren't like taking a baby mammal and raising it in captivity where it learns only how to live with people. Snakes don't "forget" or "unlearn" how to survive in the wild. It's instinctual and built right in. Wouldn't matter if it was bred, born, and raised in captivity. It's still a wild animal and has all the instincts it needs to survive in the wild. They don't just "forget" how.

The thing that I think Steve was getting at is that if the snake continued to live in the wild, it would have a serious disadvantage hiding from predators, and then there's the whole UV exposure while being albino. (blindness, cancer, etc.) That shortens their lives as well. And these disadvantages are on top of the fact that the majority never make it to breeding age even when they're normal and healthy. So remember, no real sunlight or UV bulbs for this guy but believe me, if she escaped 10 years from now, she wouldn't have any problem knowing how to survive. She would just have trouble basking in the open without being seen.

[AlbinoSquiggle]

Just wanted to clear one thing up. These aren't like taking a baby mammal and raising it in captivity where it learns only how to live with people. Snakes don't "forget" or "unlearn" how to survive in the wild. It's instinctual and built right in. Wouldn't matter if it was bred, born, and raised in captivity. It's still a wild animal and has all the instincts it needs to survive in the wild. They don't just "forget" how.

The thing that I think Steve was getting at is that if the snake continued to live in the wild, it would have a serious disadvantage hiding from predators, and then there's the whole UV exposure while being albino. (blindness, cancer, etc.) That shortens their lives as well. And these disadvantages are on top of the fact that the majority never make it to breeding age even when they're normal and healthy. So remember, no real sunlight or UV bulbs for this guy but believe me, if she escaped 10 years from now, she wouldn't have any problem knowing how to survive. She would just have trouble basking in the open without being seen.

Good point. I thought they would be similar to a dog kept in captivity.
I figured she had a disadvantage in the wild. After all if I could spot her so easy a predator (my dog or some bird) would have no trouble. That was the primary reason that motivated me to keep her.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Any updated news on this snake?

[ConcinusMan]

Well we know it's definitely not a T. elegans. Not enough upper labial scales. Until I find out otherwise it's suspected that this is the only T positive albino northwestern ever reported. Last I heard the snake was doing fine(talked to the owner via youtube) but the finder was turned off to participating in forums because as you all know, many of the reptile forums are full of jerks that can't be civil to one another. Somehow that translated to include this forum in the mind of the finder.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

What a beautiful hypo t. ordinoes.

[ConcinusMan]

No kidding. Never heard of one until this one. Reports (confirmed) and even pics of albino T. ordinoides aren't extremely rare but they were all obviously T- not unlike a "clean" original Iowa albino radix. This is different for sure than any albino ordie before it. But it's "just" a northwestern. Not a lot of fanfare and buzz going on over this like there was with the first "nebraska" radix. :(

In case you didn't notice I think it's flat out albino, not hypomelanistic. Doesn't appear to have any melanin at all to me. Just T+

[AlbinoSquiggle]

I haven't been online much lately as we are in the process of moving. I will try to post some pics in the next day or so. All three snakes are doing great. I am still feeding them a worm and slug diet. The red-striped one seems to be growing the fastest but I think it's cause she wont stop eating til she explodes where the other two will take a smaller meal then refuse any more food.
And a side note, there must be some confusion because I never said anything about the reptile forums being full of jerks. I may have said something along the lines of "I will not allow other to dictate my actions" but so far people on this forum have been rather helpful in helping me take care of my girls. As for participation, I rarely participate actively in forums simply because I have ADHD. LOL

[AlbinoSquiggle]

Here are a few quick ones, I will try to get some better ones later. They are always camera shy!

[AlbinoSquiggle]

A few more...

[chris-uk]

You have some wonderful snakes. Thanks for the update, it's great to know that they are doing well.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Im with you on this i would give anything to have this snake in my collection and i think the possibilities are endless with northwesterns. So what if most of the color phases are due to polymorphism could you imagine how nice a t+ albino with a red stripe would look! The cool thing about it is you wouldn't be able to predict what the babies would look like! Thank you for the update and put me on a list for future babies!
no kidding. Never heard of one until this one. Reports (confirmed) and even pics of albino t. Ordinoides aren't extremely rare but they were all obviously t- not unlike a "clean" original iowa albino radix. This is different for sure than any albino ordie before it. But it's "just" a northwestern. Not a lot of fanfare and buzz going on over this like there was with the first "nebraska" radix. :(

in case you didn't notice i think it's flat out albino, not hypomelanistic. Doesn't appear to have any melanin at all to me. Just t+

[Invisible Snake]

She's a real beauty, thanks for the update!

[AlbinoSquiggle]

A couple of pics taken today.

[guidofatherof5]

Very nice.