Balance/movement issues?!

[Buck]

Last night, I noticed that Bucks head was tilted to the side slightly. I wasn't sure what to make of this, so I ignored it. Now, this morning, when I went to pick her up, she tried slithering away, but flipped on her side, and then her back, and back again while doing so. I gently lifted her up out of her enclosure, and she tried twisting out of my grip like I was a predator. Even more concerning, was that when I let her go back into her tank, she kept rolling around for 20 seconds, and then tried, and failed, to burrow underneath the substrate.

What is going on?? I'm taking her to the vet now, but I'm freaking out quite a bit.

[Greg'sGarters]

Mites is the first thing that comes to mind, looks like she is trying to rub them off. Mites annoy the snake. She probably wanted to rub them off. Try soaking her in water and then after 20 minutes, mix in a few drops of dish soap, this will kill off the mites. Also you should treat the cage with Provent-A-Mite, if you need instructions, Steve (guidofatherof5) is the guy to talk to.

[Buck]

That's a possibility, but what's really worrying me is that even when I poke her she hardly moves or reacts, and then when I pick her up she absolutely freaks out, and won't stop for quite a while. Would mites really cause that dramatic of behavior? It doesn't even seem that he can perceive what way is up anymore...
Thanks for the reply

[Invisible Snake]

Is the rolling around seizure like? Convulsions?

What have you been feeding Buck? It could be a thiaminase issue

[Stefan-A]

Sounds terminal. If I saw one of my snakes doing that, I'd expect it to have hours left.

[Buck]

It is sort-of seizure like. He's been getting guppies, but has only eaten one within the past two weeks. I'm trying to get him to take pinky parts, with no success so far.

[Buck]

And Stefan, I'm freaking out even more now XD I'm hoping for mites, as Greg suggested.

[Stefan-A]

And Stefan, I'm freaking out even more now XD I'm hoping for mites, as Greg suggested.
Sorry. Good luck with the snake, either way.

[Buck]

Thank-you. And, if it does turn out to be as you think, what terminal illness could it be?

[Stefan-A]

If I only knew.

[Invisible Snake]

Has Buck been drinking water? I think I also read that dehydration may cause seizures, I'm not 100% sure though.

[Greg'sGarters]

Try to notice if he drinks the water, that could also be a problem if he isn't drinking.

[Buck]

Now that you mention it, I haven't noticed her being at her water bowl much... No swimming or drinking. I just pryed her mouth open and dropped a little bit of water in. Should I keep doing this, or could that stress her out? What are the best ways to rehydrate a snake? This seems now to be the most likely explanation, although I'm not sure why she hasn't been drinking....

[Invisible Snake]

No, whenever you pry open a snakes mouth it's very stressful for them. Just place her in a small escape proof critter keeper with shallow room temp water and let her swim/soak in it for like 5-10 minutes.

[Light of Dae]

What kind of water? is there a chance of salt in the water? Dehydration or something in the brain...

[snake man]

Did you talk to the vet yet?

[d_virginiana]

Yes dehydration can cause seizures, but if clean water is available a healthy snake will not just refuse to drink for extended periods. If a snake with available water becomes that dehydrated then the dehydration is most likely another symptom rather than the cause of the problem.
What have you been treating your water with? Doubt it will help, but you can try buying a gallon of spring water and using that instead just in case there is something odd in your water.

Just based on what you were saying, it sounds neurological. Sometimes neurological problems like this can be caused by a vitamin deficiency; usually because of the wrong diet. Doesn't sound like this is the problem since guppies are an okay food, but it's worth mentioning. Sometimes a vitamin injection you can get from the vet will fix this problem. Sometimes the damage is too much.

How old is the snake? Sometimes genetic neurological problems don't show up until they get older. IMO this is probably what it is. Like was already said, by the time anything starts causing seizures like that the chances the snake will survive are pretty low.

[Buck]

I don't treat my water, as where I live the water is so clean that there is absolutely no chlorine in it at all. She's just 10 inches in length, so not that old. The vet said that he could not find any mites, but he did find that Buck had tense muscles around his jaw area, making opening and closing the mouth difficult. He did conclude that it was likely dehydration, and proceeded to gently massage her chin, stimulating mouth opening. He gave me a syringe to place a water droplet in her mouth every fifteen minutes. He told me to come back in to the clinic in 3 days for a follow-up. I'm still open to suggestions, as the vet and I are still somewhat confused. I will continue to update as things progress, thank you!

[Greg'sGarters]

Check for mouth rot that might cause the tense jaw feeling.

This Is A Picture Of A Boa With Stomatitis (Mouth Rot) (http://www.herpcenter.com/reptile-diseases/images/mouthrot/stomatitis.jpg)

[guidofatherof5]

I find the tense jaw muscle thing rather strange. Tense compared to what?

[Buck]

I, and even the vet, were very confused. I do not believe it is mouth rot, the inside of his lip looks fine. And it's just tense and awkward for him to move (although I'm not sure how the vet determined that..) I guess. I'm kind of tempted to try checking with a different vet, as I'm not sure that I can fully understand or agree with this conclusion... :/

Is there any other possible explanation as to why she wouldn't be drinking?

[guidofatherof5]

I would say a snake that isn't drinking is indicative of some other medical issue.

[Buck]

Woah! I may have just found the answer....

I was just holding Buck while getting a cold glass of water for myself. She started moving (still sideways..) quickly towards the tap, attempting to get out of my grip. She did another corkscrew-like twist and I let her drop into the sink. Immediately, she cracked her mouth open a bit and let the water flow into her jaws.

I always give her room temperature water, as I've read that that's what's best. What I think I've failed to overlook is that I found her near a mountain-fed stream. She always drank super cold water! Could it be that she's just super fussy about something as simple as temperature...? I realize that this seems far-fetched, but I will definitely be filling her water bowl with cold now....

-fingers crossed a thousand times over-

[guidofatherof5]

At this point I wouldn't rule anything out but you did say "far-fetched" and I would agree.
Since cold water lowers the core temp of a reptile I would think reptiles would avoid it if possible.

[Greg'sGarters]

Steve's right, snakes don't like to drink cold water. I think it is the fact that is is running water. I have heard of reptiles only wanting to drink moving water. You can just get a reptile waterfall! Try that and see if that interests her! It can be ran on land and it is the perfect solution!

[snake man]

I was thinking the same thing as greg, if this is the problem you can also buy little fountains/water pumps off of amazon that will give you moving water within his enclosure.

[guidofatherof5]

I've never heard that any garter snake required moving water.
Worth a try but I feel it falls in that far-fetched realm.;)

[Greg'sGarters]

I've never heard that any garter snake required moving water.
Worth a try but I feel it falls in that far-fetched realm.;)

Sometimes snakes can be weird. At the pet store I used to work at, we used to have a 16 foot long burmese python with a jaw size of 2 hands put together. It would refuse to eat any rats, guinea pigs, rabbits, or chickens unless it had a mouse first. It looked like it was eating a grape. We tried scenting rats, rabbits and guinea pigs with mice but it needed a live mouse first.

[Buck]

Well, that does make a little bit more sense actually. She will be getting another drink of sink water tonight, and it's off to the pet store for a reptile fountain tomorrow! She does seem to be perking up a bit, thank goodness! I appreciate all of your answers, and I suppose she just missed her flowing stream back home! Another update in store for tomorrow!

[d_virginiana]

I agree with Steve on this... I just don't see a garter snake refusing water to the point of having seizures unless there is a more serious issue present. I've heard of reptiles developing bizarre ticks when it comes to food in captivity, especially if they are wild caught, but I've never heard of one refusing water like that.

My guess is whatever is causing her to be unable to use her jaw muscles correctly is probably the reason she hasn't been drinking.
When you had her near the faucet, was it clearly drinking, or could she have been having another seizure/been unable to move away?

... Go to your nearest walmart or wherever and get a gallon of spring water. Try that for awhile. Even well water, which is free of chlorine, can be SERIOUSLY contaminated with heavy metals. Wouldn't be enough to harm a human, but it could be enough to damage a snake. Not all well water is like that, but I think that something like that is more likely than her just deciding not to drink until she has seizures.
Even if the surface water in your area is fine, the well water can have very different content. I've done research on surface vs. well vs. treated tap water before; you'd be seriously surprised about some of the weird things you find in different water sources.

[Greg'sGarters]

What you're looking for looks like this, get the size that fits in your tank.

7708

Once you have bought it, PM/Skype me. I have set these things up a bunch of times.

[Buck]

Well, it did seem that she 'ran' for the tap water, and her mouth was open (just a crack, however), and she didn't attempt to move away from the water flow. I'll get some spring water, just in case.
Thank-you for the link Greg! I have bought one and will PM you shortly.
On the up side, Buck is holding her head straight and is now more responsive, so I'm confident (for now) that it's nothing fatal.

[snake man]

I am always happy to hear a story with a happy ending.

[thamneil]

Dont want to be debbie downer by any means, but the waterfall is trouble. Those exoterra brand ones always drip and moisten the bedding. Not good for a snake that needs a dry substrate. Bacteria will build up in that thing like it was a toilet. The real principle behind running water is that it can be visually detected by diurnal animals that rely on dew or rain. They do not encounter sitting water and therefore do not recognize it.

Garters are a semi-aquatc snake for crying out loud. They swin, soak, and drink water very readily. I would be willing to guarantee that the bowl of standing water was used by your snake. The waterfall will not change anything in terms of the snake's health but may degrade its environmental conditions. Glad to hear Buck is doing better though!

[Light of Dae]

Maybe put it in a plate or shallow dish / lid to avoid moist substrate, clean often with a clean toothbrush. Water n vinegar then a good rinse with tap water, then fill with bottled water.

[ConcinusMan]

I still think something else is probably going on here besides being a little dehydrated. Wouldn't be surprised if the symptom returned.

[Greg'sGarters]

Did it work?

[Buck]

Well, she's still doing alright. I've been massaging her chin, cheeks, and 'neck'. The vet said that it seems her muscles are easing up, he still has no answer as to how or why this happened, though.

With all this handling, Buck is warming up to me quite a lot! She actually seems to like the 'cuddles' and the warmth of my skin, she doesn't even want to get off of my hands when I let her <3

The waterfall is working trouble free, and I plan on attempting to feed her tonight. I will likely post pictures of her in my other thread in a couple of days.