Housing question

[KephrenJorgensen]

I am really interested in acquiring a trio of garters Ive never kept before. I am especially drawn towards concinnus, infernalis, and pickeringii. Im wondering, if all these snakes are roughly the same size and age, and are all the same gender, will there be problems in housing them all together? These three species are my favourite of the sirtalis, and I have a nack for wanting to show off the natural diversity in appearance of similar species. If it would be a problem I would just decide which of the three I want and then buy a trio from there. Another question I have, I have a 30 gallon high, its 30 X 12 X 18, and 8 of the length is divided by glass and silicone as a "water dish". Would this be suitable for a trio of young sirtalis for some time? Any additional information on the keeping of the afore mentioned three species would be greatly appreciated :) Thank you

[d_virginiana]

As long as they are roughly the same size and sex, there is no problem housing different species together. The only species of garter that shouldn't be housed with other snakes is the Wandering garter (Thamnophis elegans vagrans) as they will cannibalize. The 30 gallon will be fine for three young ones, but as adults they will need more space. Are you getting males or females? Females get larger than males, so you would eventually need slightly more space than with three males.

Looking forward to seeing pictures! Those are some of the best looking species :)

[infernalis]

I don't know about the Infernalis' working out like this.

Maybe others have had better luck, but I find that Infernalis' are a little high strung, so I have always kept mine solely with other infernalis'...

[KephrenJorgensen]

I am also interested in tetrataenia, they are the most visually attractive garter snake to me (know that I am not into garters for the visual factors, its their personalities). Would they mix "better" with the snakes than the infernalis? I would definitely not be disappointed if I had a trio of concinnus or a pair and a pickeringii. I would prefer to have males at this time. I would make arrangements of course as the snakes get too big for the 30 gallon. I'm housing my melanistic female ordinoides in it currently, and she seems to have a little more space than she wants, tending to cling to the middle area. I would like to find one beautifully erythristic male and keep it in a much larger enclosure in the future with 3 or 4 females. I just love the polymorphism factor, and by then I should have a permit to release wildlife after captive breeding. The garter population in my locality has dropped recently. I have no official figures, but I easily see 100's less than what I saw when I first moved here. Anywho, What l x w x h would be sufficient for three fully grown concinnus and/or pickeringii? Im going all out on the ordinoides enclosure, so it will most likely be huge.

[chris-uk]

I don't know about the Infernalis' working out like this.

Maybe others have had better luck, but I find that Infernalis' are a little high strung, so I have always kept mine solely with other infernalis'...

I agree with Wayne. My three infernalis babies are highly strung. I've only had them for two months or so, and they're still young though so they may calm down with time, but they have taken over from my cyrtopsis as my most reclusive snakes. They will always come out to feed (except around a shed) though and are quite bold when there is food to overcome their shyness.
The tetrataenia I got at the same time is a bit more relaxed. He's on his own (eventually he'll go with the male infernalis) which if anything I'd expect to make him more nervy. And personally, visually I prefer the infernalis because the lines are cleaner to me.

Viv size for three fully grown male concinnus/infernalis/pickeringii? People will vary, but I'm planning to move my 2 males (radix and Cuitzeo) into a 90x45x45 in the Spring, when the ladies move into a 120x55x55. I think a stating point for fully grown garters is around 3' and 4-5' would be ideal, but I'm sure many snakes are quite happy being kept in smaller enclosures.

[KephrenJorgensen]

Im curious, in your measurements do you mean inches or centimetres? Im assuming inches. I think my plan is to build something 4 x 3 x 2 feet. Ive got a drawing of what Id like the overall enclosure to look and feel like, I hope for it to resemble the bank of a lake or pond.

[ConcinusMan]

Anywho, What l x w x h would be sufficient for three fully grown concinnus and/or pickeringii? Im going all out on the ordinoides enclosure, so it will most likely be huge.

About a 55 gallon long tank is more than adequate. (floor space of 48 inches X 12 inches and minimum 12 inches high) Also depends on what you mean by "fully grown". For concinnus' and pickeringii, this can mean over 3 feet for females. You can certainly house more than 3 if they are smaller.

The question of how many snakes you can house in a certain space can't be answered precisely. One must always observe snakes and watch for signs of social stress. Also, no matter what size you use, the amount of space a snake needs is not the only factor. Must also consider how much space is needed to provide an adequate temperature gradient. This is why I prefer to use long tanks even if this means you will have less space. Also consider how fast a tank will get dirty. Obviously, more snakes crammed into a small space will get dirty fast.

[chris-uk]

Im curious, in your measurements do you mean inches or centimetres? Im assuming inches. I think my plan is to build something 4 x 3 x 2 feet. Ive got a drawing of what Id like the overall enclosure to look and feel like, I hope for it to resemble the bank of a lake or pond.

I flip between metric and "old money" (it comes from being born the year the UK went metric). I'd love to build something with a 120x90cm footprint, in principle I've got room now, but I'll start with the 120x55x55cm (that is easily cut from standard sized particle board sheets). My plan is to make it resemble the bank of a lake to make my Cuitzeo girl feel at home.

[ConcinusMan]

Another question I have, I have a 30 gallon high, its 30 X 12 X 18, and 8 of the length is divided by glass and silicone as a "water dish". Would this be suitable for a trio of young sirtalis for some time?

I would think so.

[kimbosaur]

Just thought I would mention that you are probably going to have a tough time acquiring those snakes if you live in Canada. This past summer, some members did a group buy from Scott, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't offering any concinnus. Also, I have read that listings for tetrataenia rarely ever appear and were at ridiculous price points (in the thousands) when they have. You would likely have to import from Europe to get them.

[ConcinusMan]

Just thought I would mention that you are probably going to have a tough time acquiring those snakes if you live in Canada. This past summer, some members did a group buy from Scott, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't offering any concinnus.

Good point. I hadn't even really paid attention to that part. I did get some anery concinnus' into Canada once but that was a long time ago. I shipped them to an exporter in FL, and they sent them along with a bunch of other animals, into Canada. But unless you plan on spending thousands of dollars to have a bunch of animals imported into Canada, I would say you're out of luck. And that's right, Scott doesn't work with concinnus' at all. Seems like he rarely has any pickeringii either. Red phase pickeringii can be found in B.C. though. Most people there mistake them for fitchi because they do look just like them. You would probably have better luck getting some of those.

[KephrenJorgensen]

I could acquire pickeringii in my backyard if I wished, I just hate the wild caught factor. When it comes to babies I prefer to know where they came from and if they are related or not. I will look into some Canadian sources however and see what is possible