"isopods and springtails" in the enclosure

[RedSidedSPR]

Ive read in several places of people putting certain insects inside the snake tanks for self-maintained cleanliness.

Saw someone recently mention having small "isopods and springtails" in the garter tank, can't remember where it was posted or who posted it.

Anyhoo, anybody know anything about this? Are there insects you can put in the cage that pose no potential threats to the snake, and would clean up after the snakes?

Mostly just curious but it would be pretty neat if it works

[kueluck]

Isopods & springtails need 100% humidity to live, this is why they are in living viv. I have them in my toad tank.

[RedSidedSPR]

I see. So it's not even possible to live with a garter snake

[kueluck]

Not unless you have a planted live viv, then you have to make sure you have areas that are dry so the snake can get out of the moist areas. Are you looking for just a easier way to keep a cage clean? If that's the case I love the sani-chips. When the snakes eliminate, it clumps like cat litter. I have a plastic container and a plastic spoon I use to clean the cage. But then I only have 2 enclosures to tend to and when I'm home I'm in them every couple hours talking to snakes, giving chin and neck scratches or just watching them.

[RedSidedSPR]

Well I don't a major problem with keeping the 3 cages clean, but it can get a little put of hand :p The isopods just came to mind today as I was struggling with a particular large, very dry bunch of poop in the corner of the cage.

Not something i'd want to change beddings for, but I'll check that out (sani chips)

[Selkielass]

That might have been me.
You can purchase captive bred lines if isopods from some insect dealers. (Roach, mantis, millipede, centipede and spider raisers.) They can come in pretty colors like orange and dalmatian.

Try roachcrossing.com. I can't load his site right now, but I think he had isopods. He keeps garters too.

These are pillbugs and pillbug like critters. They need a damp area in the substrate to survive, and they need leaves and rotting bark to eat in addition to whatever they clean up. Orchid or reptibark seems to work, and I add a handfuls of fruit or oak leaves to my substrate when the old ones get chewed up.

They roam around at night looking for food- I had a lot drowning in my water bowl until I provided a stick of lucky bamboo in the dish for them to climb out on.

Springtails are even tinier soil and plant dwellers. You can gather local ones in leaf mold, or buy cultures from dart frog food sources. Different lines need different conditions. Look for temperate, not tropical if you want a hope of them surviving.

I also added a few local millipedes (they are harmless, beware of poisonous tropical species.) And they seem to be surviving, but I think the pillbugs are doing most of the clean up.

I provide a moist pillbug hide under some maple bark in a back corner, and there always seems to be a crowd there when I check. My Butlers burrow under occasionally, but all seem to get along fine. The rest of the terrarium is kept dryer than the pillbug corner, but still slightly damp so the burrows the snakes dig under the leaves just holdshape.

They are good little cleaners. No smell and unless droppings are on top of a leaf or chunk of bark they often dissapear before I have a chance to lift them out.

Garters are going into brumation soon. Im hoping a lack of hosts will cause a drop in any harmful beasties that may be in the enclosure. If any mites or disease turn up im not sure what I could do butter apart my carefully balanced system.
Im hoping a 'fallow' period will help keep things pest free, just as it does in agriculture.

[-MARWOLAETH-]

You can use chemical and fertilizer free potting soil mixed with fine orchid bark.The bark creates air pocket for aerobic bacteria to breed.They help brake down some of the waist and if spot cleaned when needed wont have to cleaned out as regularly.The soil only needs to be moist enough to hold burrows shouldn't cause skin problems.

[Selkielass]

My mix is half eco- earth, half plain potting soil. I shaped the ground on my terrarium on top of a layer of plastic grid 1inch deep for drainage covered with landscaping fabric.
I added a scoop of isopod and good bacteria ladenn compost from near the middle of my own compost heap and mixed togeter the top inch or two of material with a fork. Wood and bark chips finished the surface and then I added some non-toxic leaves to carpet my forest floor.

Later on I dug down in a back corner and buried a sandwich made of layers omaple and mulberry bark from my woodpile. This M
'JENGA' l like construction reaches right dn to the landscape fabric. It gets watered every few days and provides a damp retreat for the isopods. They venture out into the dryer areas after lightf s out.

[RedSidedSPR]

Intriguing. I'm gonna seriously look into this, thanks for the detailed help Selkialass

[pinkypink]

I have a naturalistic viv set up with isopods and springtails. I have no issues with scale rot or issues keeping my cleaners alive. My substrate is eco-earth and cyprus mulch. once weekly I mix the soil and wet it down...the top layer of mulch/soil drys quickly while leaving the rest under it more moist. I also have many place for the snakey's to lay that isn't wet at all. Cork bark rounds and such. I got my cultures form a friend of mine who breeds them...
www.herpetologicalgirl.com

H (http://www.herpetologicalgirl.com/)ere is a link to pics of my snake tank.... https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.3553418476110.2130558.1292110509&type=3

[RedSidedSPR]

Nice. I've always wanted a cage like that, just don't think I could maintain it

[pinkypink]

Nice. I've always wanted a cage like that, just don't think I could maintain it

Its not hard to maintain at all...actually besides stirring the substrate once weekly and spraying it down a bit there is NO maintenance! :)

[RedSidedSPR]

Hmm. I'll have to look into that more

[ConcinusMan]

I see. So it's not even possible to live with a garter snake

I've had them in my "naturalistic" viv a while back. I didn't have 100% humidity at all and it wasn't planted. I did however, use wild moss, which I completely dried first. I think they must have hatched out from that since in a few spots, I kept it damp. (after it was dried and appeared to be clean and bug-free) Or else it came from a small potted plant I put in there sometimes. The bugs seem to congregate around snake feces, presumably consuming it. However, there's no way they are going to keep up, even with just one small snake. You still need to do tank maintenance.

I didn't exactly like having the bugs in there but I tolerated it for a time because I knew they were harmless.

They were in this tank:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5tY5tGRvDI&list=UUCtGJ_qv-_Klff1aI8C5kLQ

[RedSidedSPR]

Yeah I'm not so sure I would want bugs in my tank.

And if they're as innefective as you say, its not worth it anyway.

Maybe a praying mantis would be better! ;)

[thamneil]

I used to have isopods in one of the natural enclosures.You rarely ever see tem, but it was nice having them around. They are not an alternative to tank maintainence by any means but they should theoretically keep down any mould or eliminate any waste you miss.

[ConcinusMan]

Maybe a praying mantis would be better! ;)

Only if you want them to chew on your snakes. I won't be doing that anymore. They can do some serious damage.

[RedSidedSPR]

Yeah I figured. Would never actually do it

[Selkielass]

I had a european mantis living in the upper part of an enclosure, and she and the snakes never showed any interest in interacting.
I'd guess never mix snakes or anything else I didn't want to be attacked with any of the larger and more aggressive species. (Chinese, stacking, Texas unicorn etc.)
My ghost mantis lives in its own terrarium because it likes it warmer and more humid than im comfortable keeping my snakes, but if I ever set up a bin to raise african nightcrawlers. (If they need tropical heat and humidity, but are great for recycling kitchen wastes.) I will probably set up a ghost 'tent' over it and let the little guys feast on any mold gnats that arise.

[ConcinusMan]

I guess the problem is that if the mantis decides it's hungry, it will chew on snakes and they can chew right through the scales and everything, down to the meat without a bit of effort. When I had the mantis in there, I found an unexplained wound on the tail of one of the snakes. It looked as if the flesh was scooped/dug out. It looked to me like the mantis did it. It wasn't too serious (a little antibiotic ointment healed it right up) but still.

http://scispy.discovery.com/pg/photos/thumbnail/1111/large/