Aggressive Puget

[Maleko]

Hi there,

So I acquired a new Puget Sound Garter over the summer, born some time in May, and she's faring much better than my previous garters did. She's got a heating pad for night time, a nice heat lamp during the day when the room gets cold, she's fed a whole pinky mouse about once a week now, and she's all good.

The only problem is her temperament... she's nothing like my other garters were; docile, and eager to be held. She's wily, skittish, and she's recently discovered that she can use her teeth as a weapon...

I've tried regular handling, and she lives in my bedroom, so she's used to my regular presence, but she just doesn't like being handled. It was suggested to me that I try wearing, then cutting up an old shirt of mine and putting it in her enclosure so she can become accustomed to my scent, but I'm a little doubtful.

I'm guessing this is just her temperament and there's not much I can do about it?...

[katach]

I have a lady puget like that, not the biting, but skittish and doesn't like to be held. We just let her be. Sometimes we take her out for some handling, but she doesn't care for it. If you are really trying to get her more docile you could try just putting your hand in the enclosure and not moving it. Let her come and investigate you. Also garters are great at sensing hesitations and nervousness. Take a deep breath and relax before handling. Another option is to associate handling with food. Handle her a few minutes then give her a treat. Good luck!

[-MARWOLAETH-]

That shirt trick does work because the mainly associate us by our scent.

[Selkielass]

I was taking care of a mean snake for a while this summer- he started biting and chewing as his wounds healed and he felt able to protest my presence.

I kept him semi- handleable by gently blowing thru the screen of the cage each time I passed to keep him accustomed to my presence, and by handling him very very briefly (just a quick run thru the fingers while I changed his water and spot cleaned.)I then returned him to his cage with a bit of worm as a reward.

He didn't, in the short time I tended him show any signs of enjoying human contact, but he would tolerate brief contact without violence so long as I kept it brief and kept to routine. Most snakes gradually become more flaxes and willing. To accept humans with time, but there are always exceptionally stubborn individuals.

[Invisible Snake]

That shirt trick does work because the mainly associate us by our scent.

I thought that trick only worked with warm blooded animals, like dogs, cats and small rodents o.O

[-MARWOLAETH-]

It works with almost all reptiles but it's mainly used with monitors and tegus as they rely on their sense of smell a lot.

[Spankenstyne]

Time.

Patience, and regular handling will eventually see it calm down. Let it get confident and feel safe in it's environment and then start short handling sessions. When you go to take it out you have to be calm and confident, don't hesitate. Try not to react when it bites and only put it back when it has calmed down.

Some can take years of work. For example my worst female Cape Gopher is finally calming down after 6 years, most only take a few weeks/months. The ones that get really crazy-stressed with handling I find usually do better if you give them a few days/week between sessions. It may take longer but I have found it to work well.

There are other methods that work too, just relaying what I've had my best success with.

The shirt/clothing thing seems to work very well. I haven't tried myself but I have a couple of friends who swear by it. One used to breed Vietnamese Blue Beauty snakes and would put a shirt in just before the babies were born and I can say first-hand that his babies were always super calm & docile. It makes sense (er scents? har har) ;)

[Maleko]

Well thank you guys! I'll definitely give the shirt idea a try then, in addition to all the other ideas.
As for treating her, should I just use something small like a chunk of worm?
And a little off topic, but can snakes be trained to respond to positive reinforcement like dogs and cats? I've trained one of my freshwater angelfish using this method, and I don't see why it shouldn't work on a reptile.

[snake man]

I would suggest spending more time with her.

[Maleko]

So I did the shirt thing and now she’s very reluctant to go in that corner of the tank and as I watch her from afar, I can see she’s actively looking for me. I think I'm gonna start building a routine, like 5-10 minutes twice a day of talking to her and putting my hand in the tank and letting her investigate at her own pace. Any other suggestions for time being?

[Steveo]

Sometimes they just need time to grow. I don't handle my milk snakes very often because they're nocturnal, but once they reached the 2' mark they started to settle down.

I imagine a snake could be trained on a very basic level, but since they only eat once or twice per week it would take a very long time to reinforce the desired behavior. You'd also have to avoid triggering the behavior until they can be fed, otherwise they won't make the connection.

[Maleko]

^ I was thinking of this too. Would size make any difference? Handling a 2.5 foot long garter versus a little 14 inch garter?
I've been out near the beach this summer and the native wandering garters were a breeze to handle (if you could catch them). They were all a good 2.5 feet long or bigger, and surprisingly mild mannered for being feral snakes.

[guidofatherof5]

^ I was thinking of this too. Would size make any difference? Handling a 2.5 foot long garter versus a little 14 inch garter?
I've been out near the beach this summer and the native wandering garters were a breeze to handle (if you could catch them). They were all a good 2.5 feet long or bigger, and surprisingly mild mannered for being feral snakes.

That's funny.:D

[CrazyHedgehog]

wear rubber gloves, if she tries biting, she won't like the taste and soon gives up!

[Selkielass]

As for treating her, should I just use something small like a chunk of worm?
And a little off topic, but can snakes be trained to respond to positive reinforcement like dogs and cats? I've trained one of my freshwater angelfish using this method, and I don't see why it shouldn't work on a reptile.

I reward with s small worm or bit of worm.
Most respond to basic conditioning exercises as well or better than fish, but the there are always exceptions.

[infernalis]

Hi there,

So I acquired a new Puget Sound Garter over the summer, born some time in May, and she's faring much better than my previous garters did. She's got a heating pad for night time, a nice heat lamp during the day when the room gets cold, she's fed a whole pinky mouse about once a week now, and she's all good.

The only problem is her temperament... she's nothing like my other garters were; docile, and eager to be held. She's wily, skittish, and she's recently discovered that she can use her teeth as a weapon...

I've tried regular handling, and she lives in my bedroom, so she's used to my regular presence, but she just doesn't like being handled. It was suggested to me that I try wearing, then cutting up an old shirt of mine and putting it in her enclosure so she can become accustomed to my scent, but I'm a little doubtful.

I'm guessing this is just her temperament and there's not much I can do about it?...

My kind of snake. Feisty is GOOD.....

[RedSidedSPR]

My kind of snake. Feisty is GOOD.....

Yes! :D

Unfortunately all mine end up nice :(

[Maleko]

I'd love to have a nice little Garter TEACH ME YOUR WAYS.
My previous girls were never this feisty with me, not to mention the wild garters behave much better than she does haha.

[d_virginiana]

I think littler ones get scared easily and are more likely to bite. Harley was feisty until she hit about 10 inches, and Sithis is pretty quick to bite too.


I reward with s small worm or bit of worm.
Most respond to basic conditioning exercises as well or better than fish, but the there are always exceptions.

Food is the one thing I can put in the tank that WILL convince Harley or Houdini to bite me. :D

[ConcinusMan]

mild mannered for being feral snakes.

Feral animals are domesticated animals which have gone out into the wild and take care of themselves, such as dogs, cats, domestic pigs, goats, ducks, etc. At this point, I don't consider any snake to actually be domesticated but that's up for debate I suppose.


I thought that trick only worked with warm blooded animals, like dogs, cats and small rodents o.O

Oh no. That's where you're wrong. I've had snakes that absolutely love me and most people but just hate others. They don't react badly until they get a good "sniff"

[infernalis]

To me (not the most popular opinion) I truly prefer my wild animals to continue to behave like wild animals.

The only time I even open cages is to feed, water or clean. (occasionally for photos)

[ConcinusMan]

I don't mess with them much either. Still, most of them tame/calm down anyway. That is not to say they don't still act like wild animals. Just that most of them stop seeing me as a threat and instead see me as the guy who brings them food.:p

[Maleko]

I meant feral to be synonymous with wild, I didn't know there was a difference. The more you know I guess.

Yesterday was alright. I let her check out my hand and actually managed to pick her up for a good 10 seconds before she realized where she was, and proceeded to flip a switch. Making progress I guess.

[guidofatherof5]

I meant feral to be synonymous with wild, I didn't know there was a difference. The more you know I guess.

Yesterday was alright. I let her check out my hand and actually managed to pick her up for a good 10 seconds before she realized where she was, and proceeded to flip a switch. Making progress I guess.

I was just joking with you. I knew what you meant. I just had never seen the word feral used with garter snakes.

[Maleko]

Feral animals are domesticated animals which have gone out into the wild and take care of themselves, such as dogs, cats, domestic pigs, goats, ducks, etc. At this point, I don't consider any snake to actually be domesticated but that's up for debate I suppose.

Was referring to this. You're all good haha :P

[thamneil]

Feral animals are domesticated animals which have gone out into the wild and take care of themselves, such as dogs, cats, domestic pigs, goats, ducks, etc. At this point, I don't consider any snake to actually be domesticated but that's up for debate I suppose.


Ball pythons! Sorry I couldnt help myself :p

[ConcinusMan]

Like I said, it's up for debate. But all the morphs come from wild snakes. Does breeding for them and combining them really make an animal domesticated or does it take more? Personally I don't think humans have been breeding snakes long enough to truly domesticate them. But I guess that's a discussion for another thread.

[thamneil]

Im only joking. I just couldn't resist such a great opportunity.

[ConcinusMan]

Maybe you're right though.

[Steveo]

Do snakes even have the capacity to become domesticated? I suppose you could select for temperment but it takes a long time. The Russians tried to rapidly domesticate wild foxes over about 60 years and they became less aggressive but they were not anything approaching tame.

[Stefan-A]

Do snakes even have the capacity to become domesticated? I suppose you could select for temperment but it takes a long time. The Russians tried to rapidly domesticate wild foxes over about 60 years and they became less aggressive but they were not anything approaching tame.
Well, actually, they did become tame. Very tame.

[guidofatherof5]

Do snakes even have the capacity to become domesticated? I suppose you could select for temperment but it takes a long time. The Russians tried to rapidly domesticate wild foxes over about 60 years and they became less aggressive but they were not anything approaching tame.

I have a few radixes that are down right social. Probably as domesticated as they will ever be.

[ConcinusMan]

Well, actually, they did become tame. Very tame.

They even took on a domestic look, much like dogs do with their floppy ears and happy expression.


I have a few radixes that are down right social. Probably as domesticated as they will ever be.

Still not domesticated IMO. Don't even know if it's possible to domesticate them.

[guidofatherof5]

They even took on a domestic look, much like dogs do with their floppy ears and happy expression.



Still not domesticated IMO. Don't even know if it's possible to domesticate them.

I was being less then serious. I would call my girls ultra comfortable.

[ConcinusMan]

Oh, I know. And you did say "as they will ever be" which is why I said I don't know if it's possible to domesticate them.

[RedSidedSPR]

It's more a secure, comfortable, and maybe trusting snake them a tame one, yeah.

As for Wayne's comment, I'm much the same way.. Kind of. If the snake is nasty and strikes and stuff, by all means continue! I like them feisty and all that. Not all my snakes, but a few of them. But a lot of them will start out "nice" and in the case, I'll try and get them even nicer, cuz that's always cool too.

Ideally I'd love to have a few really nice snakes, like my concinnus, and one or two nasty snakes, along with some normal, interesting to observe snakes will wild tendencies, "mean" or not.

[ConcinusMan]

I like to think their "tameness" has a direct correlation to their intelligence. Which, as we all know, varies from person to person, so why not snake to snake?

Probably not logical to think that though. Rats are quite intelligent but I wouldn't go picking up a wild one and expecting it to be friendly.

[RedSidedSPR]

Is that not your point, the rats can be tame, or tamed, but aren't always naturally so

[ConcinusMan]

I guess it kinda is. If they weren't intelligent creatures, they would act soley on instinct and remain fearful of people. They must learn fast in order to become tame. Years ago, there were very few squirrels in my neighborhood. You almost never saw them, and they would bolt as soon as they saw you. Now they're everywhere and the dang things come right in the house begging for food. They learned the behavior. Learning takes intelligence. In fact the squirrels are so smart, they know which nieghborhood cats are a threat, and which ones aren't. The cat across the street actually froliics and plays with the squirrels. the squirrels seek out the cats company to engage in play. And yet, if they spot one of the dangerous cats, they act like any squirrel would act if a predator was nearby.

[RedSidedSPR]

Yup, hence the constant garters-are-smart stuff cuz they sure as hell learn.

[ConcinusMan]

Not just that. Inquisitiveness. And they are curious about everything. Also a sign of an intelligent, thinking animal.

[RedSidedSPR]

Oh yeah. Among other things. I didn't just mean learning.

Could write a book

[ConcinusMan]

I don't think any of our snakes are going to write a book. They're smart, but not that smart. :p