Head Twitch

[Light of Dae]

My female checkered garter I think has a neurological issue. I've seen it happen three times now. First time I saw it she looked like she was going to yawn then she opened her mouth and looked like she was trying to bite the back of her head, freaking out fast, lasted for 60-90 seconds.

The second time she kept her mouth closed and just nodded her head a couple quick times.

Third time it was to the side, she twisted her head quickly back n forth.

Each time it was a couple days apart. Mind you I don't stare at her all day. So it could be happening more then just a few times. She moves normal other wise.

I think I'm naming her Twitch :)

[Light of Dae]

Do Neurological issues get worse with age or do they normally stay the same?

[guidofatherof5]

Give us some snake history.
How long have you had her?
Approximately how old is she?
What has she been eating and how often?
Photos would be good.

[EasternGirl]

I know that neuro issues can happen in albinos. I'm sure you remember that my snow radix, Possum, has a neuro disorder. I don't know how often they occur in non-albinos, for lack of a better term. If it is a neuro disorder is does not necessarily mean the worst...some snakes get worse and some stay the same. Possum is over a year old now and his problem has not progressed...he is very healthy despite his neuro challenges. If you could take a video by any chance, that would be really helpful.

[Light of Dae]

Give us some snake history.
How long have you had her?
Approximately how old is she?
What has she been eating and how often?
Photos would be good.

Got her on Oct.4.
She is probably about 5 months old.
Come to think of it... she was being fed rosy red minnows and pinkie mice.
Now is strictly on Worms and Pinkie Mice with few Silversides

Would finding a B vitamin supplement help at this point? Could it reverse it?

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachments/general-talk/7012d1349482492-my-snake-log-100_3951.jpg

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachments/general-talk/7329d1351383695-my-snake-log-100_4203.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

It certainly can't hurt. Blaming it on the rosies certainly would be presumptive.
It could be a combination of a couple things most of which you have no control of.
Amazon.com: Rep-Cal Reptile Calcium Powder with D3: Pet Supplies (http://www.amazon.com/Rep-Cal-Reptile-Calcium-Powder-D3/dp/B00061UWJM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1351394696&sr=8-2&keywords=rep-cal)

[Invisible Snake]

First time I saw it she looked like she was going to yawn then she opened her mouth and looked like she was trying to bite the back of her head, freaking out fast, lasted for 60-90 seconds.

This particular movement is what happened when my young garter snake started getting seizures, he eventually died. He was also being fed minnows.

[EasternGirl]

I would get the vitamin B supplement to avoid further deficiency and try to stop the problem, if that is the case. But you may want to get her checked by a vet to determine if that is actually the case. I don't know if giving vitamin B can be a problem if the snake is not actually deficient. If it is a neuro problem, there is nothing you can do but wait and see if it gets worse. If you have a vet, you may want to get her checked out as soon as you can.

[katach]

I don't really have a comment on why she is twitching, but she is pretty. I have a male Puget named Twitch :). He's just jumpy though. I really love the look of the normal checkereds. I just got a male from Steve, they are so cool. My female is an albino. Good luck and I hope this turns out to be fixable, or non progressive.

[Light of Dae]

This particular movement is what happened when my young garter snake started getting seizures, he eventually died. He was also being fed minnows.

This is what I was worried about. I just hope it is early enough.


I would get the vitamin B supplement to avoid further deficiency and try to stop the problem, if that is the case. But you may want to get her checked by a vet to determine if that is actually the case. I don't know if giving vitamin B can be a problem if the snake is not actually deficient. If it is a neuro problem, there is nothing you can do but wait and see if it gets worse. If you have a vet, you may want to get her checked out as soon as you can.

I'm planning to get the supplement.
How would a vet check for a deficiency? I haven't found a good herp vet yet and at this point I don't have money to buy a cup of coffee lol so a vet will be a little ways off yet.

[d_virginiana]

How long ago did she stop eating the minnows? If it's been a while, would there still be a deficiency since she's been getting a good diet?

I don't have any experience with snakes that have neuro disorders, but my frog has something like froggy narcolepsy, and she was fine after I figured it out and switched up her care a little.

[Light of Dae]

How long ago did she stop eating the minnows? If it's been a while, would there still be a deficiency since she's been getting a good diet?

Well I got her on Oct.4.
So it has been 24 days in my care and the lady said it had been two or threes days since she was fed n finished her minnows.

That is a good question. How long would the deficiency last?

[ConcinusMan]

A single thiaminase enzyme molecule is capable of destroying a huge number of thiamine molecules. (perhaps hundreds of thousands) Adding thiamine to the diet, even in huge amounts or injections usually doesn't do any good because the thiaminase still present in the body just continues to destroy it. I'm not sure how long this keeps going on though, or how long thiaminase remains in the body.

[Light of Dae]

Could it help to add the supplement? Or could it hurt?

At least it's not full on seizures and it seems very minor so far. Just hope it doesn't get worse.

[ConcinusMan]

Could it help to add the supplement? Or could it hurt?

Probably not, and yes, it could. That's the problem with supplements anyway, and why I don't even use them. It's a slippery slope. Overdosing on certain vitamins or not having a proper ratio of certain vitamins can actually cause what you're trying to prevent. It can cause deficiencies and overdosing can be far more harmful than a mild deficiency. You don't know how much thiamine to give a snake, particularly when thiaminase containing fish are part of the diet. Lets be clear, you don't even know if there is a deficiency at this point, or how severe it is. Overloading with vitamins at this point can do more harm than good. I would just stop feeding thiaminase containing fish and load the snake up with plenty of whole, safe fish and rodents, skipping the supplement altogether.

I've seen snakes gradually get better by just doing that. If it's so bad that the snake can't recover doing that, then there's probably very little that supplements can do anyway.

Correction: I was wrong. Apparently thiamine (B1) is water soluable and difficult to overdose on. Now, if you were to feed your snake B1 by itself with no other vitamins, sprinkled on it's food then there's a good chance the snake will recover.

http://www.gartersnake.info/articles/2012/all-about-thiaminase.php

[Light of Dae]

Okay, So I'll just continue on with a strict diet of Worms n Pinkie Mice with a treat of Silversides every now n then.

Never any minnows or any live fish on my snakes dinner plates.
Not worth the risk.

[ConcinusMan]

Check the ingredients. The silversides might be supplemented already. But it probably won't hurt to get some B1 (thiamine) and use that without other vitamins.

[Rober10169]

Hello, just want to add my 2 cents about vitamins. Vitamins A, D, E, and K are the fat soluble vitamins. You have to be careful with these as you can overdose on as little as 10 times the daily recommended amount (assuming very little for a small creature). All the other vitamins are water soluble so the body uses what it needs and excretes the rest. However, you can overdose on water soluble vitamins as well but to a much higher dosage, if you exceed 100 times the daily recommended amounts (again who knows what the amounts are for such small creatures). Now don't confuse minerals, micro and macro with vitamins as they are their own entity.

[Light of Dae]

She just did it again. This time though she was stretched out not curled up in her skull. Her head twitched to the side as one spot on her side seemed to pinch together, it was a quick 1 2 3 then back to exploring.

Going after work today to a friends health store to get some Vitamin B1 capsules hopefully. Will add to her food.

[guidofatherof5]

This is good stuff.
http://www.amazon.com/Rep-Cal-Reptile-Calcium-Powder-D3/dp/B00061UWJM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1352206814&sr=8-2&keywords=Rep-Cal+Calcium

[RedSidedSPR]

I have 3 different supplements, I've had them for years.

I've also never used them.