Question about garter snake in my yard- dead or hibernating badly???

[amsong]

I know a bit about wildlife and about husbandry with captive snakes, but neither set of my experiences is giving me confidence with the current situation. I signed up on here to get quick feedback from people who know alot more than myself. I am not a fancier, breeder or pet owner of snakes or reptiles.

I have garter snakes living in my backyard. The tiny ones seem fine, active and hard to see staying underneath the grass, as of this morning. There has been one larger snake, who is up in the grass every day and easy to find. She (assumption) is always sluggish, but it is mid-October in central Illinois and I have to wear a jacket every day except for an hour or so around noon. Lows at night in the low 40's, highs maybe hit 70 in the day but not all day, lots of cold wind lately.

Today, she felt very cool and unresponsive. She had a section of skin partially shed, but the shedding didn't look like it was going well. I placed her in warm water, and I saw her breathing and she moved to be half in/ half out of the water. Then I took the photo that is inserted below.

As the day cooled off, she never moved again, and became more cold and still. I picked her up and brought her inside, but have not warmed her beyond the ambient temperature inside. She is in a pillowcase, so I am not viewing her, but she still feels cold and still. When I brought her inside, the temp outside was between 55 and 60 with cloud cover and a cold wind.

If this was a warm-blooded animal, I would say she was dead. I am just not sure whether garter snakes will just lay in the grass on an October day and die... but it doesn't make sense that she would not be properly snuggled up somewhere to hibernate if that is what she was planning to do.

Any way to tell for sure whether she is torpid from temperatures and the possibility of hibernating, or whether she is just dying or dead? Do they get stuck falling into hibernation in bad places, or would she have gone underground for sure if her body was shutting down in that way, rather than dying?

7171
Seems like such a silly question, but I am unsure.

Thank you!!!!

[chris-uk]

I don't believe that she would stop and lay still part way through a shed, and that she would remain still while you pick her up and put her in a pillow case. They won't just drop into brumation in the open, in fact they will still move to drink when they are brumating.
Has she moved at all since you brought her into the house? If she hasn't I'm afraid that you have a dead garter snake in your pillow case. :(

[amsong]

I don't believe that she would stop and lay still part way through a shed, and that she would remain still while you pick her up and put her in a pillow case. They won't just drop into brumation in the open, in fact they will still move to drink when they are brumating.
Has she moved at all since you brought her into the house? If she hasn't I'm afraid that you have a dead garter snake in your pillow case. :(

I have come to the same conclusion... kind of was waiting to see if full-blown rigor mortis would confirm. She is cold and still. Odd, how it is usually easy to tell if an animal has died, but she really threw me... her eyes look completely normal, there are no marks or injuries and the fresh scales as she sheds are stunningly radiant with turquoise color, and she is plump; I think she may have a food lump in her, in fact.

I have been worried about how much she is aboveground, quiet and in cooler places than I would have thought normal or wise... I have developed a fondness towards her over the weeks here. I checked on her every day and pet her head and talked to her, and I am so sad that she died right in front of me, without me knowing how to help her. I hope her warm water bath was a comfort for her in the sunshine this afternoon as she was going through her transition.... and I hope it didn't contribute to her demise. The water was not hot, I am not even going to worry about such things, it is too late...

Thank you for responding. As weird as it is, I was so worried about declaring her dead if she was just very still and cool and still alive.

[guidofatherof5]

Looks like that snake has some kind of blockage which would explain laying out in the open.
It could be that death is close. I've found adults in my yard this way.
On a good note I found one like that and she lived almost 2 years with be before passing from what I think was just old age.
She was a pleasure to have he and I miss her.

[amsong]

Looks like that snake has some kind of blockage which would explain laying out in the open.
It could be that death is close. I've found adults in my yard this way.
On a good note I found one like that and she lived almost 2 years with be before passing from what I think was just old age.
She was a pleasure to have he and I miss her.

Awww.... I have been interacting with her for a couple of weeks, and noticing her lethargy for several days. I could have taken her to a vet, if I had asked you guys earlier! I thought her lethargy was due to the cool weather, and was a bit concerned about her, but not enough to take action until today... I failed her. :( I just trusted that a wild animal would be better off without my interference.

I appreciate the education because there are garter snakes all over town, and next time I will know that this behavior is abnormal and the snake needs help.

[EasternGirl]

You did not fail her...you tried to help her...and I thank you for that. Is there any way that you would consider taking the babies in if it is becoming too cold for them? We could tell you how to care for them. I am concerned about them if the weather is getting cold.

[amsong]

You did not fail her...you tried to help her...and I thank you for that. Is there any way that you would consider taking the babies in if it is becoming too cold for them? We could tell you how to care for them. I am concerned about them if the weather is getting cold.

Do they need help, or will they hibernate on their own? I am willing to help them if they need it. I think I can catch them. I don't see very many, although unlike their presumed mother, they can stay underneath the grass and are hard to see. Their holes are very easy to see, however.

I worked at a small children's science museum and totally reformed the care/ environments and feeding of the reptiles there, including a corn snake, (I even traveled up to the Brookfield Zoo and met with the reptile house lead caretaker to get suggestions), so I am pretty comfortable with the needs of a snake. I just don't want to keep snakes in cages as pets, for various reasons. Could I put them in my basement to hibernate and then let them back out? There are truly garter snakes all throughout this area of the town I live in.

Will be watching for your advice! Thank you!

[chris-uk]

If the snakes are healthy and have access to den sites then they should know when the time is right to retreat to the den and stay there for the winter. I know from conversations with Steve that this summer hasn't been helpful for garters and that food may have been scarse, so it may be that some of the snakes you're seeing are trying to feed for longer before brumating.
However, I'll let some of the other members advise you as to whether they need help because you'll see from my location that I don't have any contact with garters in the wild.

[Steveo]

Unless they're in obvious distress, leave them alone. The ones who don't find brumation sites and don't survive the winter shouldn't be passing their genes to the next generation anyway. We water down the gene pool in captivity for our own benefit, but it would be detrimental to do it to a wild population.

Native species have survived for thousands of generations, many of which saw summers like this past one. Individuals may die, but the population will go on.

[amsong]

Unless they're in obvious distress, leave them alone. The ones who don't find brumation sites and don't survive the winter shouldn't be passing their genes to the next generation anyway. We water down the gene pool in captivity for our own benefit, but it would be detrimental to do it to a wild population.

Native species have survived for thousands of generations, many of which saw summers like this past one. Individuals may die, but the population will go on.

The little ones seem fine, very active and fast. I will just be more aware next time I see a lethargic animal. For now, I will do my best to help the caged, friendly, lonely pit bull nearby and all the feral cats running around who need TNR. :-) SO many animals in need... the little wild ones are doing better than many! :rolleyes:

Thank you one and all...