Issues with Mice...

[EasternBlackNeckedMort]

I have an Eastern Black Necked who I caught around two years ago, in my garage. I've been feeding him(?) minnows for the majority of two years now, and he's still extremely skittish, especially when it comes to handling. Recently I've tried to convert him to mice, with no luck.:confused: So far I've tried wiggling it around (He's so shy he hasn't even tried to bite it) and pouring minnows in a strainer and setting the mouse in for a few seconds to try and scent it... He hasn't touched it, I don't think, although I did see a spot of blood on its nose... Probably a scrape. :(

Any recommendations? Also, do they sell bottled fish-scent or something like that?

~EBNMort

[guidofatherof5]

It would be best to get him off minnows as soon as possible. Is this an adult mouse you are trying to feed your snake?

[EasternBlackNeckedMort]

It would be best to get him off minnows as soon as possible. Is this an adult mouse you are trying to feed your snake?

I'm trying to feed him small hoppers, about 6 centimeters long.

[EasternBlackNeckedMort]

(Posted twice, sorry.)

[RedSidedSPR]

Minnows = BAD. Stop feeding them. They contain Thiamnaise (B1 definciancy).

I would stop feeding him minnows for like a week or 2, and continue scenting the pinky (it's gotta be pinkies btw) with the minnows and offering that. Just rub the minnow on the pinky and feed it. The hunger (from my feeding the fish) should make him much more open to the pinky. Always works for me

[EasternBlackNeckedMort]

Minnows = BAD. Stop feeding them. They contain Thiamnaise (B1 definciancy).

I would stop feeding him minnows for like a week or 2, and continue scenting the pinky (it's gotta be pinkies btw) with the minnows and offering that. Just rub the minnow on the pinky and feed it. The hunger (from my feeding the fish) should make him much more open to the pinky. Always works for me
Thanks! That clears it up. I haven't fed him many minnows this week, so I'll try again in a few days and reply. Do I need to wiggle the pinkies around?

EDIT: They were hoppers by the way, not pinkies. I'll try with pinkies. :)

[RedSidedSPR]

Not necessarily but depending on the snake, it could help. How do you normally feed him?

[EasternBlackNeckedMort]

I normally give him 10-16 minnows in a water dish every 5-6 days.

[guidofatherof5]

Cut up a minnow so you have a nice scenting mix. The more blood and guts the better.
Some snakes have issues with new food because of the "mouth feel" so you have to over power that feeling with scent.

[EasternBlackNeckedMort]

Can I freeze the minnow, and then thaw it? <:\ Also, should I roll the mouse in it afterwards?

[guidofatherof5]

Is this an adult mouse?

[EasternBlackNeckedMort]

I've been trying with small hoppers, but I'm going to change to pinkies.

[guidofatherof5]

Using pinkies will help with that "mouth feel" thing.
Some snakes don't like the fur and will avoid them.

[EasternBlackNeckedMort]

Thanks. I'll post back when I've tried it. :D

[RedSidedSPR]

You can also try taking a pair of scissors, cut up 2 or 3 minnows in like 3 pieces each, and do the same with the pinkies. Mix 'em up in a nice dish, and serve it on a platter.

[Light of Dae]

All good advice given here.

If you must feed live fish go with guppies or platys as they are way safer then minnows n NEVER goldfish! :) You could freeze the minnows if you'd like. Either way the best scenting I find is to mush the item your scenting with(in your case a minnow or two). Mush it in a bag then add the pinkie mouse and let the pinkie thaw in the fish mush.

No warming of the mouse... Garters like cool food.

Since your Garter is used to being fed fish in his water dish try taking out most of the water just leave enough to cover the pinkie mouse. Dump the fish mush in the water with the pinkie. Everything will reek of fish lol It should work to excite him enough that he won't realize its a mouse till it half way down n then he'll just have to learn to enjoy it. lol

To help convert him after tricking him into it, try the same method that worked but cut into the pinkies head a little bit to help get the mouse scent mixed with the fish scent. Then slowly use less n less fish .


Oh and we require pictures if you can :D

[EasternBlackNeckedMort]

@RedSided
Eww.... I can cut up fish, but not mice. XD

@Dae
I think I'll go with your method, since he's so used to the dish. I'll post pics once I feed him again.

Thanks to everyone! :3

EDIT: Wait, if I'm feeding him 10-16 minnows a sitting, how many pinkies once I stop with the fish?

[RedSidedSPR]

Cutting up pinkies ain't that bad... Especially if you pay attention to where you're cutting

Well remember, fish is still an option. A good one in fact. Just not minnows. Guppies, Frozen/thawed silversides, Tilpia.. So by all means, continue the fish.

Also worms. Worms should be the bulk of any snakes diet, some fish thrown in there, and a good couple of pinkies once or twice a week. That's how I do it.

Don't go from minnows to pinkies. Go from minnows to worms, different fish, pinkies. Give him a good healthy, rounded out diet with neigh variety to

Feed him every few days, enough to give him a good sized, noticeable bulge, but not a overly large bulge, to the point of hindering his movement and looking exceptionally defigured

[chris-uk]

What I've found helps when I've had a snake with a strong preference for a particular food is to give them a single piece of their preferred food (in your case I'd try a different fish rather than minnows) and then offering the scented new food once they are in feeding mode and hunting for more.
Also, the suggestion of leaving it hungry before trying is good - makes a garter less fussy.

[CrazyHedgehog]

@RedSided
Eww.... I can cut up fish, but not mice. XD



I cut them while they are still frozen, decent scissors and no gloopy mess, they also defrost quicker in bits!

[Light of Dae]

I also agree with letting him go without food for at least twice as long as you normally do. Being a little extra hungry will not hurt him one bit. It will however make him less picky n more inclined to eat the new food. ...

lol My mom did that with me once, at lunch I didn't wanna eat the food. She said fine. I got leftovers for supper... lol It works.

[jitami]

Another thing you can try is to put one or two minnows or guppies if you can get them but since he's used to live let's just go with that for now and add a small thawed pinky or two to the water bowl with a couple of fish. As he's swimming and hunting he's very likely to accidentally grab the pinky. At that point he may spit it out the first couple of times, but should eventually switch over.

[Steveo]

You can also try taking a pair of scissors, cut up 2 or 3 minnows in like 3 pieces each, and do the same with the pinkies. Mix 'em up in a nice dish, and serve it on a platter.

This is how I did it with my scrubs... mixed fish and mouse parts for a few weeks, then stopped adding fish. Triggering the feeding response with fish seemed to get them going. Only a few times did one eat the fish but not the pinky parts.

Something you could try is letting the food sit somewhere nearby where they can smell it for a little while before feeding. I thaw pinkies in air on top of their cages for an hour or two and it seems like the scent gets them cruising around. Often they'll grab a piece before I even get them out of my hand and into their feeding containers.

[RedSidedSPR]

One of the best methods , imo

[RedSidedSPR]

I'm about to use the tactic I just mentioned on one of my babies, he won't eat pinkies. Only tried like 4 times but still

I'll record it.

[twgrosmick]

I'm about to use the tactic I just mentioned on one of my babies, he won't eat pinkies. Only tried like 4 times but still

I'll record it.

Agreed. For the most part I can rub the fish on the pinky chunk and make sure it is dipped in water (to simulate the wet slimy texture) and most of my babies who were problem feeders jump right on it

[EasternGirl]

I will agree with what everyone else has been saying...minnows are very bad...hoppers don't usually appeal to garters. The scenting and mixing might be the answer to getting the snake to eat the pinkies. I know you said you don't want to chop pinkies...but really, it is something that you get used to and if you do it when they are frozen...it isn't bad at all. Just make sure you thaw the pinky before feeding. Chopping is good because with a picky eater...sometimes the blood attracts the snake. You could wiggle the pinky around...or wiggle the pieces around...that sometimes helps if the snake is used to live food. And as was mentioned, there are safe kinds of live fish you can feed. You can also buy tilapia or trout fillet at the store...fresh, not frozen...and try feeding pieces of that. But I would still try to introduce other things like pinkies and worms into the diet. A varied diet is good for the snake.

[Light of Dae]

You could also put the pinkie(Chopped or not) with fish chunks/ mush in a dish with water and swish it back n forth to stimulate movement.

[RedSidedSPR]

Well it worked for me lol


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_zSCBoH2Wg&amp;list=UUDulsoo-ajZ4Sb45-WuPGtA&amp;index=1&amp;feature=plcp

[guidofatherof5]

Looks good.

[RedSidedSPR]

It does look rather tasty.

[mikem]

i like how it goes over to the other snake and is like "hey, look at me, nomnomnom" :D

[EasternBlackNeckedMort]

Finally remembered to reply... XD Sorry it's been so long. Anyways I fed Mort on Monday, it was late and I was having second thoughts about cutting/squishing anything, so I just caught about 6 minnows and put them in his water dish, along with 1 pinkie. He ate it! :3
Anyways, I'm going to be feeding him 2 more pinkies with about 10 minnows tonight, and slowly lowering water level and increasing pinkie numbers over the next few weeks. I'll try to remember to respond sooner, too. :P Afterwards, I'll try to find feeder guppies at one of the exotic fish stores around here. He doesn't really like worms. :\

[Invisible Snake]

Finally remembered to reply... XD Sorry it's been so long. Anyways I fed Mort on Monday, it was late and I was having second thoughts about cutting/squishing anything, so I just caught about 6 minnows and put them in his water dish, along with 1 pinkie. He ate it! :3
Anyways, I'm going to be feeding him 2 more pinkies with about 10 minnows tonight, and slowly lowering water level and increasing pinkie numbers over the next few weeks. I'll try to remember to respond sooner, too. :P Afterwards, I'll try to find feeder guppies at one of the exotic fish stores around here. He doesn't really like worms. :\

Also lower the amount of minnows you put in ;)

[EasternBlackNeckedMort]

Yeah- I forgot to put that. :P Anyways, I fed him again last night- 12 minnows and 2 pinkies. He ate it all!

[guidofatherof5]

Get him off those minnows. Thiaminase and parasites are a bad risk.
Since minnows have be feed in those numbers I would strongly suggest a fecal float done. Minnows are usually loaded with pinworms, hookworms, etc.
Were these bait shop minnows?

[EasternBlackNeckedMort]

Guido, I'm in the middle of getting him off minnows. :l And no, they're rosies from a pet store.

[Light of Dae]

Switch him to guppies now. ... read the thread ...

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/urgent-care/11651-head-twitch.html

I started about my Checkered garter girl that was being fed rosy red minnows. Make the switch to guppies now, throw out any minnows you have left.
He'll eat guppies just like he ate minnows.