Garter is having seizures, help/advice needed!

[Invisible Snake]

Hey everyone, my garter is 4 months old and has had multiple seizures in the past 24 hours. I'm afraid he is too far gone for a vet, but I will still consider it an option. Should I consider euthanizing him? As with all my garters, he is my beloved pet and I will not nor can I not euthanize him by way of smashing his head as I've read in old posts. I've read that this method will cause instantaneous death, therefore minimal to no pain is felt, but I simply can not force myself to do it. What are some other options I can use to euthanize him?

At the moment he is currently and has always been in (3 months) quarantine wile under my care because he was a picky/stubborn eater for me. He appears lethargic and the seizures for the moment have stopped. He also has weird tilt to his head.

Should I euthanize him or is there a chance he will recover on his own? I don't want to give up on him :(

[guidofatherof5]

This is obviosely a touchy situation and there is some disagreement as to what method of euthanasia is best. With that being said I would suggest purchasing a piece of dry ice, placing it and the snake in a small container for a few hours. Make sure the snake can't come in contact with the ice.
Best of luck with this bad time.

[ConcinusMan]

What's he been eating?


Hey everyone, my garter is 4 months old and has had multiple seizures in the past 24 hours. I'm afraid he is too far gone for a vet, but I will still consider it an option. Should I consider euthanizing him? As with all my garters, he is my beloved pet and I will not nor can I not euthanize him by way of smashing his head as I've read in old posts. I've read that this method will cause instantaneous death, therefore minimal to no pain is felt, but I simply can not force myself to do it. What are some other options I can use to euthanize him?

At the moment he is currently and has always been in (3 months) quarantine wile under my care because he was a picky/stubborn eater for me. He appears lethargic and the seizures for the moment have stopped. He also has weird tilt to his head.

Should I euthanize him or is there a chance he will recover on his own? I don't want to give up on him :(

[Invisible Snake]

What's he been eating?

I have been feeding him mostly rosys and sometimes guppies. He would only eat live food. I have tried scenting tilapia and pinky parts, but he would not eat them. I have visited (2) bait stores in my area for canadian nightcrawlers and decided not to purchase the nightcrawlers from those stores because when I asked where they were harvested from they gave me sketchy responses, also these businesses just started last year.

Before buying live fish I always inspected them for any ick and other illnesses visible to the naked eye. I am well aware of the thiaminase in rosys, but chose to ignore it because he was such a picky eater and only eating about 2-3 times a week, plus guppies were getting harder and harder to find in pet stores.

My plan was to only feed him rosys until the outside temps dropped close to 50-55 degrees F., so that I could purchase nightcrawlers in bulk online.

[Stefan-A]

There are no nice ways to kill a snake.

- Smashing the skull.
- Freezing.
- Shooting.
- CO2, CO, He, N, H2O.
- Injection of some toxic substance.

Lost a snake a week ago. I chose not to euthanize it when I realized its situation was hopeless, because I didn't want to do anything that might make the necropsy more difficult. That excluded all the means I had at my disposal.

[katach]

Sad situation, sounds like euthanasia would be the kindest thing you could do for him. My thoughts are with you.

[ConcinusMan]

There are no nice ways to kill a snake.

This is true. When it comes to babies suffering a slow agonizing death and I need to euthanize out of mercy, I just bite the bullet and use the quickest method. Firmly and quickly, head between thumb and finger...

It seems to be the fastest method. Death is instant.

If you can't bring yourself to do it, freezing is the least involved method, (put 'em in and forget it) however, in a household freezer it takes about 20-30 minutes. Snakes probably do not lose conciousness at cold temps like mammals would so the likely suffer as their cells begin to burst from ice crystals forming. It probably hurts like hell.

Unless of course you happen to have access to liquid nitrogen. That would freeze them instantly.

[EasternGirl]

I am suspecting that the thiaminese (sorry about spelling) enzyme in the guppies and rosies could be causing a B1 deficiency and explain the seizures. I know he is a picky eater...but if he makes it through this...I would recommend starting to feed him store bought tilapia or rainbow trout or silversides, or worms, or pinkies. The reason for not feeding fish with lots of thiaminese in them is that it can cause this deficiency and I have heard of members who had snakes that developed seizures from it. If you decide that it is hopeless, I would probably try to make him comfortable as possible until he passes or go with the dry ice that Steve suggested. Do you have a vet?

[RedSidedSPR]

first thing i thought as well, minnows often result in sudden seizure-like death.

[Kantar]

are you absolutely sure? seems like the talk of euthanization came pretty quick...

did it shed recently? is there a piece of shed stuck to its head? my snake did the same thing because it had a piece of loose shed stuck to its head

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Try giving the snake increased amounts of vitamin b and see what happens. I have seen snakes saved like this before. It may be too late but it's worth a try if it might save him and don't feed this snake no more fish for awhile.

[Buck]

I thought guppies were thiaminase free (or at least have incredibly low, and safe amounts of it)..? Isn't it just the rosies that are a concern here?

If I'm affirmed to be correct, then you could breed guppies! That's what I plan on doing as prices are expensive up here too.

http://guppyplace.tripod.com/Breeding.html

(http://guppyplace.tripod.com/Breeding.html)If you just need to wait until he regains enough Vitamin B, then still keep guppy breeding in mind as a cost-saving (and entertaining) option. Once he's hungry enough he'll have no problem eating fish fillet or worms! Also, if you live near a river, standard corner stores may sell nightcrawlers.

[Selkielass]

No more rosies.
Dust minnows with b rich vitamin supplement and hope for the best.
Switch to guppies, tilapia, salmon, and other safe foods.
I hope it recovers.

[ConcinusMan]

I am suspecting that the thiaminese (sorry about spelling) enzyme in the guppies and rosies

Way too soon for that. The snake is only 4 months old. However, the reason I asked about the diet is that I had snakes develop similar symptoms after a long run of eating nothing but wild Coho salmon.

[EasternGirl]

Yes, you are correct...sorry about that...it is the rosies that are unsafe. But I have also heard of snakes developing this problem from eating a diet of fish only...like Richard mentioned with the salmon. I always try to switch things up a bit so that my snakes are not eating too much fish. I will give them fish for maybe two feedings in a row...but then I will give them worms or pinkies the next feeding.

[guidofatherof5]

Way too soon for that. The snake is only 4 months old. However, the reason I asked about the diet is that I had snakes develop similar symptoms after a long run of eating nothing but wild Coho salmon.

I think that is exactly why it is possible. A small, young snake fed mainly rosies is more then capable of developing a B1 deficiency. I also think some snake are more susceptible to the issue.
Just my opinion.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Areed! I have seen young snakes with b1 deficiency before. The only other thing i could think of would be contaminants in the fish.
deficiency. I also think some snake are more susceptible to the issue.
Just my opinion.[/QUOTE]

[ProXimuS]

I don't know much about this kind of stuff, but I would think it could be possible, even in the short period of time, that it might be B1 deficiency, mostly because of the size of the snake. It would probably be easier for the thiaminase to affect such a tiny body.

[Invisible Snake]

Thank you everyone for your concern and input, but several hours after my last post my little baby flame died.

Cause of death was dehydration and ultimately me. My improper husbandry with this particular guy led to his death. I had him in quarantine in a RUB with too much humidity.

Lesson learned. And it will never happen again.

[guidofatherof5]

Sorry to hear about the little scrub passing.
We have all made mistakes and the fact that you recognize it is a good sign.
Don't be too hard on yourself.
I'm a little confused with what you say the cause of death was and the fact it was in a too humid environment. Could you please explain. To humid an enviroment will not as a rule cause seizures.

[-MARWOLAETH-]

Sorry for your loss:(

[ConcinusMan]

Thank you everyone for your concern and input, but several hours after my last post my little baby flame died.

Cause of death was dehydration and ultimately me. My improper husbandry with this particular guy led to his death. I had him in quarantine in a RUB with too much humidity.

Lesson learned. And it will never happen again.

I highly doubt it on both counts. That is, that it will never happen again, and that you were the cause. I still highly doubt that it a thiaminase issue. Lots of things can cause neurological symptoms, particularly when the snake is about to die.

There is no lesson to be learned here other than the fact that **** happens sometimes no matter how good your husbandry is. Unless you give up on keeping garters, it will happen again or something similar. Trust me. The second lesson is, the cause is usually never known. Any guesses or attempt to guess as to the cause will only lead you to frustration and self-blaming so without a conclusive necropsy, don't even try to guess.