General characterization of subspecies attitudes

[SilasBannook]

Hey all. I have been digging through the threads trying to get a feel for the average personality some of the species have.

It seems that Radix rate very well as they get high marks for being calm and good eaters

It has also been claimed Ordiniodes come in as a close second.

I know that many on the forum have Sirtalis and that is a favorite for many breeders.

I personally also have Vagrans and Radix and actually found my Vagrans took to being handled much faster than my Radix.

I ask because I have been planning to add Infernalis to my collection next year and wanted to know if there is a general attitude trait I should be aware of which could come as a surprise. I love the color and think that having them as I do presentations at schools would really be a hit (I don't show babies). Anyway, I read that Infernalis are more aggressive than other garters. I would love to know about them in particular but think forum members would love to know if there are other generalisms that could be shared.

I do also wonder if attitude/behavior of each snake is varied within subspecies like it is within people groups. Perhaps no generalism can be made and as we share on the forum we pass on our bias for the snakes we enjoy so much. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.:)

[RedSidedSPR]

Infernalis are indeed mean.

[chris-uk]

I think although there are broad generalisations that any garter can be raised to run against the general trait for their species. They are quite intelligent animals and I've seen them learn new behaviour, but only when it benefits the individual snake in question. As a comparison, species of dogs such as pitbulls have a reputation for aggression, but it's down to how the owner trains them.

I'm new to infernalis, and so far I'd describe them as shy unless there is food around, then they get more aggressive with each other - I can't say how my three babies will be as they grow though.

[taharial]

Am I the only one that has T. elegans? LOL, I haven't seen much on them at all... Mamas is very skittish, but she is still pregnant (still waiting for the babies). She is actually doing a little better now. Spica does not like being handled at all.

[-MARWOLAETH-]

My marcianus is really shy and will retreat into her hide or plant if there is to much noise or movement in the room.When i'm feeding her she seems less scared of me and will even come up to my hands if I put some food on it.Is this just typical scrub behavior or has anyone had marcianus that act like this?

[RedSidedSPR]

My Marcianus is skittish in a hands off way, and will note to prove it. But I don't think that has anything to do with him being a Marcianus.

[Selkielass]

Easterns- varies widely by individual. Most calm down and tolerate people well.
Marcianus- skittish when small, very laid back and calm if handled regularly as they grow. Easy to train with food.
Butlerii- may be slightly skittish at first, but soon calm down and cling around fingers for security. Older individuals are more likely to cling and freeze than bolt. Do well at slightly cooler temperatures with heat only from overhead. Excellent classroom animals. Very unlikely to bite or even false strike. Very docile.
Brachiostoma- (based on one rescue) skittish, runny and prone to bite and chew when handled.

[RedSidedSPR]

Concinnus.. I can't reccommend any snake over these guys, I have one that's almost a year old, he's never bitten me, or even showed any fear/skittishness, they're incredibly bold from what I can see, he's rarely ever used a hide. He usually sleeps in the leaves, 8 inches above the ground.. He's also never refused a meal, of any type of food.

Just got 2 new babies, they have yet to utilize a hide either, just bask in the open all day. Far as I can tell, they're up there with radix in temperament. Not to mention they look awesome.

Granted I can only speak for a few species, but concinnus are fast becoming my favorite snake. Actually I think they just passed parietalis as my favorite, concinnus rock.

[kerensa]

What I have noticed of my red-sided (Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis) is they are pretty much dog tame; not all that excitable and settle down to being held well. I've held the 8 that are from the same litter of them in one hand a number of times, and they twine my fingers and such with out any issue while I clean their enclosure with the other hand- Mind you this also means I was able to pick all 8 of them up at once. The other 6 red sided are also nice, but are not kept together so interaction ia all one on one. The ones kept separate also tend to be a little more excitable.

My Eastern (Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis) scrubs are fairly excitable, they appear to be thinking "OMG the monster is gonna eat me!!" every time I go into the enclosure- warning strikes and scrambling to get away etc. I don't think any have ever made contact- The adults I've delt with have all been calm, friendly interested snakes. Belle-Fleur is the most eager to be handled snake I've ever had. (I've had some very friendly snakes)

[ConcinusMan]

Am I the only one that has T. elegans? LOL, I haven't seen much on them at all... Mamas is very skittish, but she is still pregnant (still waiting for the babies). She is actually doing a little better now. Spica does not like being handled at all.

Certainly not. Plenty of people have coast garters (T. elegans terrestris) and of course, wandering garters (T. e. vagrans)

T. s. infernalis' are generally very mean / aggressive

[Stefan-A]

T. elegans vagrans. 40-50 specimens. One individual tried to strike and that was under duress. None have ever so much as put on a threat display, including the one that tried to bite. The females I've handled have been anything but skittish, they've curled up instead of scampering. The males have varied from skittish to almost indifferent. Only 1 has musked me, the same individual that tried to strike.

T. sirtalis parietalis. 2 specimens, male and female, almost polar opposites. The female was somewhat skittish, lunged at me 3 times, under duress. The male appeared indifferent to handling. Neither put on a threat display. Neither musked.

T. sirtalis tetrataenia. 1 specimen, female. Frequent threat displays, frequent musking. 1 strike in 5 years, under duress, on the second day after it was acquired.

[ProXimuS]

I've got a male Gulf Coast Ribbon(Thamnophis proximus orarius), and he's a little skittish. He'll hide if there are any huge sudden movements or anything. A little freaky when you first pick him up but calms down pretty readily. I've only had him for about 5 months, but he has never ever tried to bite or musk me. Even when I first caught him(he's wild caught).

[SilasBannook]

Great feedback. Thanks all.

[Steveo]

I can't really characterize any of mine because they're only a few months old. They're all flighty and still occasionally musk (especially the pickeringii).

Of the T. e. vagrans and T. radix I've found in the wild, the radix always fled and did not strike when captured. vagrans females act very defensively but do not strike unless cornered (one that I brought home for a few months was fairly docile for a big gravid gal but would tire of being held after 4 or 5 minutes and try to flee); males are flighly and musk, some have struck while I took pictures but it was always when I caught them out in the open without cover nearby.

[norcalj]

Out of all of the garters that I've ever kept, Bluestripes are absolutely the nuttiest! As a whole, they just seem to be hyper flighty. Often times, just walking past their tanks will cause them to go go ballistic, and fly up against the terrarium wall. Out in the field, the worst smelling musk that I ever encountered comes from Santa Cruz garters. It's way worse than Terrestris and Infernalis.

[ConcinusMan]

Out in the field, the worst smelling musk that I ever encountered comes from Santa Cruz garters. It's way worse than Terrestris and Infernalis.[/QUOTE]

It is pretty bad. Also, they tend to bite very aggressively and I've had pretty significant reactions to their saliva.

[jitami]

Am I the only one that has T. elegans? LOL, I haven't seen much on them at all... Mamas is very skittish, but she is still pregnant (still waiting for the babies). She is actually doing a little better now. Spica does not like being handled at all.

I have 2 T.e.elegans. I don't handle them a lot, but both are easy to pick up, hold, and manage as needed. Both are wild caught and I think that has more to do with their temperament than anything else. My captive born babies, both elegans & marcianus/sirtalis have all been easy to handle, no musking, no striking, rarely startle and are just calm for the most part. The captive born babies also tend to be out and about more often and do less hiding than the wild caught kids, but my w/c guys are such long term captives that there's not a huge difference there, either.

[Invisible Snake]

*I'm new to these 2 species/subspecies of garter snakes and currently working with mostly babies/juveniles, these are my personal observations*

Thamnophis sirtalis infernalis and Thamnophis cyrtopsis ocellatus are very similar in attitudes, both are defensive and don't like to be handled and won't hesitate to strike at something or someone they find threatening. My Ocellatus prefer to sleep under the substrate during the day and are very active when it gets dark. My Infernalis spends most of their time hidden either in a hide or under the substrate, they are very timid and don't like to be handled. Ocellatus are flighty, but will calm down after being held for a couple of minutes. Both prefer to eat live fish (I haven't tried worms yet) and will only eat heavily scented pinkies.

When threatened my infernalis will flatten its head and keep its body relatively low to the ground ready to strike. When my Ocellatus feels threatened/cornered they will rise up (like standing up, but it's body is still curled up) and puff up their bodies to appear bigger than they really are and won't hesitate to strike. I noticed these behaviors while trying to feed them unscented pinkies, they didn't recognize it as food and felt threatened.

[-MARWOLAETH-]

What are atratus like?

[@ndy]

Well i have 2x T. marcianus and they differ night and day, my big girl gets really aggressive at feeding time and she strikes and draws blood until she is in your hands.
Only then she calms down! I handle her allot and I have had her since 5 weeks old she is CB2010 and has her mothers attitude!

Then my new garter is a CB2011 baby form a different pair and she is calm and friendly but shy, she will only eat if you aren't looking and hates the camera!

[Darlo]

Interesting observations regarding infernalis; I can only comment as I have found with mine - they are a little flighty (female more than the male), but I've never been bitten or struck at. They musked a little as babies.

The only one of mine to inflict bites and display noticeable defensive behaviour was my albino marcianus. It used to really flatten it's head and produce really long and slow tongue flicks

[Invisible Snake]

*I'm new to these 2 species/subspecies of garter snakes and currently working with mostly babies/juveniles, these are my personal observations*

Thamnophis sirtalis infernalis and Thamnophis cyrtopsis ocellatus are very similar in attitudes, both are defensive and don't like to be handled and won't hesitate to strike at something or someone they find threatening. My Ocellatus prefer to sleep under the substrate during the day and are very active when it gets dark. My Infernalis spends most of their time hidden either in a hide or under the substrate, they are very timid and don't like to be handled. Ocellatus are flighty, but will calm down after being held for a couple of minutes. Both prefer to eat live fish (I haven't tried worms yet) and will only eat heavily scented pinkies.

When threatened my infernalis will flatten its head and keep its body relatively low to the ground ready to strike. When my Ocellatus feels threatened/cornered they will rise up (like standing up, but it's body is still curled up) and puff up their bodies to appear bigger than they really are and won't hesitate to strike. I noticed these behaviors while trying to feed them unscented pinkies, they didn't recognize it as food and felt threatened.

I forgot to mention that the infernalis babies musk a lot, but grow out of that after regular handling and I've never been musked by the ocellatus.