Oregon Red-spot Not Eating

[Greg'sGarters]

I had got an Oregon Red-spot Garter who ate some goldfish once but hasn't eaten since. He refuses pinkies, goldfish, worms, guppies, and insects. Does anyone have any tips?

[guidofatherof5]

How long has it been since the last meal? NO insects. They don't eat insects.

Garter Snake Forum - Garter Caresheet (http://www.thamnophis.com/index.php?page=caresheet)

[RedSidedSPR]

Or goldfish.

[Greg'sGarters]

He ate middle of September

[Invisible Snake]

How old is your snake?

[chris-uk]

He ate middle of September

So it's only been 2-3 weeks. I wouldn't be getting too worried just yet, even a baby garter can go longer than that without feeding. If it's an older snake you could have months before the next meal, one of my adult radix chose not to eat for 10 weeks (and I don't expect that's anywhere near a record), my other radix will often go 2-3 weeks between eating and then when he does he packs the food away.

[EasternGirl]

As Chris said, no need to get too worried just yet. I have had snakes go months without eating. I just found two wild caught easterns...have had them for over a week...they are too scared to eat yet. Try cut up nightcrawler pieces, chopped up thawed pinky mice, or chopped up fish fillet (raw) like tilapia or rainbow trout. Steve gave you a link to the caresheet...check it out and then let us know if you have any questions.

[Greg'sGarters]

I know that they can go months without eating and sometimes do. I have a problem because on November 1st, he is going into brumation. I need to put some weight on him. By the way he's breeding age 2&1/2 feet long.

[guidofatherof5]

Going into brumation underweight is dangerous.;)

[chris-uk]

I know that they can go months without eating and sometimes do. I have a problem because on November 1st, he is going into brumation. I need to put some weight on him. By the way he's breeding age 2&1/2 feet long.
If he's underweight and not eating you may have to accept that he's chosen a different schedule, he doesn't know he has a brumation booked in for the 1 November.
As he's an older snake and has only eaten for you once I assume he was eating for the previous owner? Can you replicate their feeding conditions? Or if he's wild caught he may not be adjusting to captivity.

[Journey Fan]

Hey Greg,
Ya, there can be many things like temp, hiding space, movement around the cage, vibrations from loud music, etc. Try to make him as calm as possible. He could have a parasite.
Did you scent the pinkies first? Were they dead and cold? Mine take thawed pinkies when they have been scented with fish. I will take a fresh water minnow freeze it, then and cut it into pieces, and use 1/2 or 1/3 of it thawed, smashed in some cool water.
If that doesn't work, try sliced beef heart. Mine go crazy on that and you can cut the pieces into 1/4 x 1/4 inch by one to three inches long and it goes down nicely and quickly. It also freezes well and is cheap, 2-3 dollars a pound.

[ConcinusMan]

I would consider skipping brumation. Snakes need to be dewormed, and eat well, consistently all summer before brumating. If this snake is WC I've seen weight and appetite issues disappear with proper deworming.

[Greg'sGarters]

The weird thing is that he isn't underweight. He's probably fatter than my female and she's been eating up to 4 goldfish and 4 earthworms for brumation.

[guidofatherof5]

Probably a good idea to switch to a healthier fish. Goldfish are not safe as they not only contain thiaminase but usually carry a parasite load.
Here's a link to the care sheet which goes into depth about thiaminase and food sources.
Garter Snake Forum - Garter Caresheet (http://www.thamnophis.com/index.php?page=caresheet)

[ConcinusMan]

Goldfish...

Almost no nutritional value, usually loaded with parasites, and definitely loaded with the harmful enzyme called thiaminase. Don't panic about it though. Before I knew better I used them and my snakes lived exceptionally long but goldfish were only a small part of the diet. You should see if you can get him to eat fish scented or unscented pinky mice.

No offense but you seem to be throwing a lot of clues that you're very inexperienced with keeping snakes and that you basically don't know what you're doing. That's OK, you can stick around and learn and have a healthy happy snake but I would highly advise against brumating this snake.

He might be refusing because hes getting clues (shortening days) that its time to brumate. Just about all the wild garters around here have stopped eating I'm sure. You need to provide adequate temps (a gradient ranging from around 74-88 degrees during the day, no cooler than 65 at night. And using timers, keep the day length at least 14 hours long. If that doesn't get him eating soon, try a full spectrum bulb and 18 hour days. They'll often snap out of it and start eating again if they think its summer.

They brumate in the wild to survive the winter. Its hard on them. 85 percent of them die in the first winter. 50 percent each winter thereafter. Theres no reason to brumate in captivity unless you plan on breeding and even then you're taking a chance. What they eat and do in the wild is not necessarily what they should get in captivity. You gotta consider the wild lifespan averages about 3 years. With proper captive care they can live 20 years.

[Greg'sGarters]

What fish would you recommend I feed him? He's WAY to big for Rosies.

[RedSidedSPR]

Well, even Rosie's are a bad choice. Same stuff as goldfish for the most part. Only live fish I know you can feed is feeder guppies. They're pretty small too, though.

If you want bigger food items that won't hurt your snake, you're gonna have to do like we do, and go with frozen silversides (in the freezer at most pet stores). It's a big bag full of frozen, whole, sometimes quite big, fish. I don't reccommend huge food items anyway, just plenty of smaller one's so they're great.

Also, and even easier choice, is Tilpia fillet. Yeah, the kind you'd eat. My snakes love that, easier to use. Just cut it up however you want and thaw it. But make sure it's from a safe source, like a legit market. NOT Walmart/Target etc... I get mine at Trader Joe's.

Fish shouldn't be the whole diet anyway, so obviously you'll need worms (night crawlers only) and pinkies too. I feed worms mostly, some fish whenever, and pinkies ever 3-5 days

[ConcinusMan]

What fish would you recommend I feed him? He's WAY to big for Rosies.

Fish doesn't have to be alive you know. As long as it smells like fish, they'll eat it. As far as rosies go, they are used by some breeders to get finkicky babies to eat and this often saves the snake. But you shouldn't use them long term and certainly not as a main source of food.

I would recommend fresh tilapia fillet. Be careful about using frozen packaged because sometimes it has preservatives added. Preservatives that will kill snakes really fast. Frozen is fine but check the ingredients. Make sure it's just tilapia and perhaps water. Another fine choice is steelhead or any other trout species. Salmon can be used sparingly. Just offer bite sized strips in a dish. The smell should be enough to make them eat it. Another excellent but expensive choice is frozen / thawed silversides. They are sold as carnivorous fish food at pet stores such as petco.

Besides all this talk of fish, even better for the snakes is rodents. Most concinnus' will eat f/t rat or mouse pinkies happily. If yours will, that should be the main diet, with fish and worms just being there to provide variety. My adults absolutely adore newborn rat pinkies. Also, when i can get them, they love quail chicks. The latter two foods are very dense and nutritionally complete. When eating those items, adults only need to be fed about 2-3 times a month.

I've never used beef as I am unsure about the effects it will have on their health. Also, I've seen cases where people fed them too much beef and the snakes developed severe deficiencies, soft bones, tremors, "stargazing" etc.

All that aside I think you might need to warm things up and increase the intensity and length of "daylight" for your snake so they don't know it's fall. I've done this before and after a month, the snakes started eating again. Where more heat is not needed, a florescent tube or compact florescent light works just fine for increasing daylight. Leave it on about 14-16 hours a day.

[Greg'sGarters]

I do know this, he doesn't want to eat but is DEFINITELY not underweight. Next to my pregnant T. sirtalis sirtalis, he is the fattest one I have.