Fraud!!!!!

[Journey Fan]

Hello all, including the guardians of the forum,
What can be done when a member of the forum receives your money, but won't send you the snakes, won't return emails, won't call you back, and has made NO attempt to contact you and offer any type of explanation???
Someone help me! :confused:

[Stefan-A]

If the payment was made through PayPal or similar service, turn to them about getting your money back.

Report the crime.

The forum can do nothing helpful in that regard, I'm afraid. We can ban the person, but that's it.
PM me the name of the scammer.

[Journey Fan]

I am hoping the person will see this and correct the issue. I paid with a money order( ya I know) but that was all he accepted. He didn't have a Paypal or similar service! I will let you know what happens. He has quite a lot of ads on the forum and is not a newbie either!

[Stefan-A]

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/general-talk/8264-transaction-safety.html#post155758


What can you do to prevent getting totally ripped off



If a deal looks too good to be true, it usually is.
If a deal looks illegal it probably is.
Ask them where THEY got it and then check.
Ask for a photo of the animal.
Ask them to fax you a copy of their drivers license.
Ask them for references in the industry.
Ask them for local references.
Look up their name and address on the internet white pages (http://people.yahoo.com/).
Ask for their phone number
Ask for references on USENET newsgroups.





Okay so I got ripped off, what do I do now? First determine whether it was just a bad deal or a complete ripoff cause once you start some of this there no turning back....
Make copies of the advertisement on your local hard drive. Try to get a copy of the logfile transcript that shows this users post
Complain to the persons Internet Service Provider that the advertiser is posting fraudulent advertisements and ask the Internet Service Provider to terminate his account for violating it's Terms of Service Agreement
File a complaint at FBI Internet Fraud Complaint Center (https://www.ifccfbi.gov/)
File a complaint at ScamBusters (http://www.scambusters.com/)
File a complaint on the National Fraud Information Center (http://www.fraud.org/)
File a formal theft complaint with their local law enforcement authorities
File a complaint at the Better Business Bureau (http://www.bbb.org//)
Post a complaint on the pubic USENET forums.
File a formal complaint with the US Postmaster General (http://www.usps.gov/). (This works best if you sent the person a US Postal Service Money Order). Mail Fraud is a FEDERAL OFFENSE and there are lots of people in PRISON for committing MAIL FRAUD. If you sent your check/money order via US Postal Service to him and he accepted it congrats thats mail fraud.

[Journey Fan]

WOW,
Thanks for all of the tips! Yes, it was a US Postal Service Money Order. He said that he accepted it and that everything was "good". I have the emails to prove it too. He can't sell snakes from prison, can he? I hope he is reading this...

[Invisible Snake]

Sorry that you got scammed. Can you please either post or PM me the name of this person so I know to avoid them?

[Stefan-A]

The identity of the accused is irrelevant at this point. The two parties are sorting it out now and it is likely that all we got here is a failure to communicate.

In reference to my own statements in this discussion: http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/site-feedback-suggestions-questions/11466-boi-category-review-buyers-sellers-garter-snakes.html I hope that we can keep names out of this until the issue is resolved.

[CrazyHedgehog]

Timing is a big issue here, it could be the person has had some personal emergency /flooding / family issue / losing internet/ illness ,or similar and has just not managed to get back to you yet, if he/she/they have sold on here before, I am sure someone would have noticed a scam earlier.
good luck, hope it gets sorted

[EasternGirl]

The tips that Richard originally posted are good rules to follow in any sort of business transaction. I learned quickly when looking for a puppy. I never send money orders or pay cash unless I am standing in front of the person and receiving the purchased item at the same time. I hope everything gets worked out in this case.

[Journey Fan]

Well, I wish I had better news, but the person who refuses to send me the snakes is still not sending them. He made another promise that they would be sent to arrive today, but never came, Nor did I receive an email, phone call, or private message here at the forum. How long do you all think I should wait? This person said that he has been doing business for a long time with good success. I find that hard to believe. Everyone with that background has access to a computer somehow or at least a phone, or a friend's. There is no excuse for this. He needs to fix this soon or I will have to contact the authorities (Postmaster). I would rather have the snakes, but this is rediculous. Another failed promise and no response, I mean really!!!!

[chris-uk]

If you think that a crime has been committed (which you obviously do as you are calling the transaction you made with the unnamed breeder fraudulent) then report it to the relevant authorities.
There's nothing that anyone on the forum can do to help - except if you have reason to believe that someone else on here has regular contact with the breeder, in that case you could ask that person if they'd be willing to contact the breeder on your behalf, it may make no difference but if there's been a simple misunderstanding it could clear things up. Of course, unless you read a lot of background posts you don't really know who has regular contact with who, but it's about all you can do on the forum.

I don't know what you hope to gain by posting vague descriptions of your experience. It doesn't serve as information that could be useful to anyone else buying snakes. If the breeders has really defrauded you then privately naming them to a moderator could enable them to prevent the breeder advertising on here again.

[Stefan-A]

I don't know what you hope to gain by posting vague descriptions of your experience. It doesn't serve as information that could be useful to anyone else buying snakes. If the breeders has really defrauded you then privately naming them to a moderator could enable them to prevent the breeder advertising on here again.
The idea was that this thread would motivate the other person to keep his word. Apparently, it's not working.

[Invisible Snake]

I would like to know who Journey Fan is referring to, not to start trouble, but because I am always adding to my collection of garters and 90% of them come from members on this site and Journey Fan previously stated in a similar thread that this person has been a member here for a while and I don't want to be this person's next victim :l

[snake man]

I would like to know who Journey Fan is referring to, not to start trouble, but because I am always adding to my collection of garters and 90% of them come from members on this site and Journey Fan previously stated in a similar thread that this person has been a member here for a while and I don't want to be this person's next victim :l

I agree.

[EasternGirl]

I sort of agree but at the same time we don't know for sure that Journeyfan is telling the truth either...no offense...but...I don't think it's a good idea to slander anyone on here. Furthermore, Journeyfan...I'm not sure what you think you will accomplish by repeatedly complaining about this on here. It isn't as if we have any authority over snake breeding business transactions. And no offense again, but you paid in a money order which is always taking a risk. I always check around and get recommendations on breeders before purchasing snakes and make sure the money transaction is safe.

[RedSidedSPR]

^^^^

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Hey journey fan i hate what you are going through right now. I know that this forum has a tight relationship and we all trust each other. I hope that this is a miscommunication situation and that everything works out for both you and the seller. I have always had a fear of this happening because it happens all the time on other sites and all it takes is one bad apple to spoil everyone. I know most of the breeders on here and they are all stand up people and i can't think of one that would scam anybody not saying that your claim is not true just stating that we all on this forum have a tight relationship and that to me is what makes thamnophis.com so special. I personally don't have a paypal account so i ask for check or money orders on my transactions, but i always give three or four references, my phone number, address, and what ever it takes to make the customer feel secure. I hope things can continue the same on this forum as we all have became friends and we enjoy seeing our snakes grow on various threads. I hope you and the seller come to an agreement and get this thing resolved. I wish you the best of luck on this situation.

[infernalis]

There is an element of irony here that is mildly amusing.

(sorry it's at your expense journey fan, I know it will be corrected in the end..)

[guidofatherof5]

I don't think this is a fraud situation but more of inability of the seller to communicate at this time.:)

It is frustrating to not have any answers though. Hang in there.

[ConcinusMan]

but you paid in a money order which is always taking a risk.

How's that?


I never send money orders or..]

Why not?


I don't have a paypal account so i ask for check or money orders on my transactions

Same here, but no checks. And the money orders MUST be a domestic United States Postal Service money order and filled out before mailing. I insist on that mainly because if it gets lost in the mail, stolen and cashed by forgery/alteration, etc. The postal service will replace them for free (after 60 days for lost/missing ones) They even cover fraud, meaning if you use them and someone cashes them and fails to deliver your product, you will eventually get your money back. So pretty much like paypal. That is why some breeders such as scott give the alternative to pay by money order but only take USPS money orders.

Cash is fine too if I'm on the receiving end, LoL But seriously, sent with tracking and/or express it's reasonably safe. I wouldn't want people sending cash without tracking/signature required.

But seriously, I think there's a process before you call something fraud. Like, the money order has to be cashed first off, and I think 30 days later you can call it fraud. Before both those things happen, the authorities won't even take a report because no crime has taken place.

[ConcinusMan]

disregard this post

[Journey Fan]

Yes Stefan, this is the last installment. <br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; However, I did promise everyone a follow up this week as to what basically happened, or would have happened...<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Well, a summary was that this seller missed the first promised shipping date and the second promised shipping date, without calling or emailing me! There was also no communication by phone nor email for over a week! None of my calls nor emails about the shipments were ever returned. All this happened, of course, after the money order (be careful) was "rushed" (by seller's request) to this seller! Wouldn't you all be worried?<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I have been buying and selling snakes for over twenty years and this has never happened. People aren't who they use to be. What is happening to the world???<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Anyway, the seller finally resolved the issue and the snakes were sent. However, the seller did have the nerve to send me a profane, degrading note (in the forum) saying that I should "lighten up" and not worry so much. Maybe the seller should have "manned-up" and been more professional and responsible....

[Journey Fan]

Yes Stefan, this is the last installment. <br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; However, I did promise everyone a follow up this week as to what basically happened, or would have happened...<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Well, a summary was that this seller missed the first promised shipping date and the second promised shipping date, without calling or emailing me! There was also no communication by phone nor email for over a week! None of my calls nor emails about the shipments were ever returned. All this happened, of course, after the money order (be careful) was "rushed" (by seller's request) to this seller! Wouldn't you all be worried?<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I have been buying and selling snakes for over twenty years and this has never happened. People aren't who they use to be. What is happening to the world???<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Anyway, the seller finally resolved the issue and the snakes were sent. However, the seller did have the nerve to send me a profane, degrading note (in the forum) saying that I should "lighten up" and not worry so much. Maybe the seller should have "manned-up" and been more professional and responsible....

[Journey Fan]

Yes Stefan, this is the last installment. <br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; However, I did promise everyone a follow up this week as to what basically happened, or would have happened...<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Well, a summary was that this seller missed the first promised shipping date and the second promised shipping date, without calling or emailing me! There was also no communication by phone nor email for over a week! None of my calls nor emails about the shipments were ever returned. All this happened, of course, after the money order (be careful) was "rushed" (by seller's request) to this seller! Wouldn't you all be worried?<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I have been buying and selling snakes for over twenty years and this has never happened. People aren't who they use to be. What is happening to the world???<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Anyway, the seller finally resolved the issue and the snakes were sent. However, the seller did have the nerve to send me a profane, degrading note (in the forum) saying that I should "lighten up" and not worry so much. Maybe the seller should have "manned-up" and been more professional and responsible....

[chris-uk]

Glad you finally got your snakes. But duplicating the same post three times in different sections of the forum is a little much.

[Stefan-A]

Glad everything worked out and it only took 11 or 12 threads. I doubt anything was actually prevented, though.

I really don't want to see another thread like this one, from anyone, about anyone. Sort it out for yourselves from now on, but above all, start communicating.

Seeking advice is still fine, but don't do it under false pretenses.

[ConcinusMan]

I think it could have been handled better. There were mistakes on both ends of the deal. I'm with Stefan on this one though. These things shouldn't be posted here, but taken care of in private. Thats the reason why replies are not allowed in the for sale/trade section. Only PM's are allowed and threads like this one are the reason for that.

[EasternGirl]

My bad about the money order thing, Richard. I had no idea that they offered a refund if you don't receive goods. I thought they worked differently.

[infernalis]

I think it could have been handled better.

Yes it could have, maybe returning a call or replying to an email, maybe delivering the snakes as promised would have been a great start...


There were mistakes on both ends of the deal. I'm with Stefan on this one though. These things shouldn't be posted here, but taken care of in private.

From what I can tell, Journeyfan did try to take care of this privately, but the "mystery seller" refused to answer...

This "mystery seller" has a long history of not being prompt with shipments.

Moral here - anyone who advertises snakes, services or goods should be fully prepared to make shipment promptly, or refrain from advertising.