Lighting / Heating questions

[Jeffm91]

Hey everyone!

First I'd like to start out by saying that I am new to this forum and am excited to be here for help and to learn a lot more about my new pet. I got a garter snake two days ago and have been quickly learning a lot about how to take care of him. At the pet store, I got a 'prefab' kit with a 10G tank, heating pad, 50watt day blue light (with ceramic reflector dome), terranium liner, and some peat moss substrate. The instructions informed me to always leave the heat pad on, and I understand how to manage the temperature gradient. However, yesterday I had the heat pad on (it is under the tank btw) and the day blue light. He seemed to be happy. However, at night once I got him more stuff for the tank (some artificial leaves, a 'den' and a good sized water pool for fish/and him to bask in. He quickly wrapped up and stayed in the water for about 2 hours. So I assume he was overheated. Therefore, today I was reluctant to use the lamp for too long.. I turned on the lamp (heating pad had still be constantly on) and threw in my digital thermometer with the reader touching the substrate. It read 90 degrees. I know this is not good so I decided to turn off the heating pad. Without the pad, it is now 81.6 degrees with just the lamp. Essentially my question is.. is turning the lamp on during the day and unplugging heating pad, then putting heating pad on at night and lamp off a good solution and method to keep my snake's temperature regulated at a healthy level? Ill post a pic of my tank too! Thanks to whoever replies, I'm really gald to be somewhere where I can get help.

http://i50.tinypic.com/cuc7.jpg

(Idk if you can see his little head poking out on the right by the water bowl :] )

- Jeff

[Jeffm91]

Also I will gladly accept any advice anyone has for a beginner!

[infernalis]

Have you read the forum care sheet yet?

I would turn off the heater myself. There is no place to retreat from the heat in a tank this small with multiple heat sources in use.

A small modest basking lamp just like you have is all that you need.

The snake cannot thermo regulate when the tank is heated from above and below at the same time.

Are you measuring your temperatures with a thermometer?

[setfree]

Welcome to the forum! 90 deg. is probably to high for him. I would use the heat lamp during the day and depending on how cold it gets at night I would choose wether or not to use the heating pad. During the day the tank should be about 80-85 deg. At night it can go down to 72 or 77 deg. you should always have a warm side and a cool side... anywhere from a 3-5 degree difference. I can't see pics on this computer so I am just telling from what you wrote.

The care sheet is always a good read. Garter Snake Forum - Garter Caresheet (http://www.thamnophis.com/index.php?page=caresheet) BTW. What kind of garter do you have?

Good luck!:D

[infernalis]

there is nothing wrong with cooling your Thamnophis at night.

Unless you live in an igloo.

Normal room temperatures at night are still going to be warmer than a night spent under a rock near the river.

[guidofatherof5]

As stated it's hard for the snake to regulate in a small tank. Craigslist is a great place to find inexpensive larger tanks.
A larger/longer tank will work better on your heat problem. The care sheet is a good place to answer many of your question and will assist you in making your friend more comfortable.

[chris-uk]

Also... Get a thermostat to control the heat. The lamp may be ok without a stat (depending on the wattage) because a lamp has quite predictable heating properties,but a mat should always be controlled by a thermostat.

Welcome to the forum. You'll get some good advice here, unfortunately most shops give shocking advice about garters.

[snake man]

Welcome and everything has really been said already.

[Jeffm91]

Thanks a lot everyone. I will definitely check out the care sheet on the website. I do have a thermometer in the tank but I doubt it is as useful as my digital one that I've used to check temps periodically. I will just use the lamp to heat during the day and the pad only on nights that are very cold?

[guidofatherof5]

Having a thermostat that tells you the temp. is okay but a thermostat that controls and monitors the temp. is best.
May I suggest.
Amazon.com: Hydrofarm MTPRTC Digital Thermostat For Heat Mats: Patio, Lawn & Garden (http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-MTPRTC-Digital-Thermostat-Heat/dp/B000NZZG3S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1348838128&sr=8-1&keywords=hydrofarm+thermostat)

[Jeffm91]

Thanks Steve, I'm going to buy that. I got a timer for my lamp, any suggestions for timing?

[chris-uk]

Thanks Steve, I'm going to buy that. I got a timer for my lamp, any suggestions for timing?

Adjust the timing every couple of weeks to more or less match your natural day length.

[guidofatherof5]

Thanks Steve, I'm going to buy that. I got a timer for my lamp, any suggestions for timing?

A cheap mechanical time should work well. You could set multiple on/offs.
Intermatic TN311 15 Amp Heavy Duty Grounded Timer - Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-TN311-Heavy-Grounded-Timer/dp/B005MMSTNG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1348871211&sr=8-2&keywords=indoor+timer)

[kueluck]

Would some one expand on the lighting issue. Do they need UVA ,UVB lighting? Are regular CFL lights ok? What about incandescent lighting for light or for heating? Also there are the “special” reptile lights from Zoo Med that fit the florescent light figures. The care sheets do not expand on this area.

[guidofatherof5]

Garters don't need UV which is one of the great things about keeping them.
I use fluorescent bulbs in most of my enclosures.

[Jeffm91]

Steve:

Is my 'day blue' light effective enough for my snake? I really have to say. I am so happy I found this community.. I know I am an amatuer but I love my snake and look forward to learning so much. You guys are great!

[guidofatherof5]

As long as it provides the lighting you think it should.

[Varanus]

The snake cannot thermo regulate when the tank is heated from above and below at the same time.

However, in a larger tank could a undertank heater and a low wattage light be used at the same time on one side of the tank? The undertank heater would have a thermostat and be used to keep things stable, the light would be simply for basking pleasure as it wouldn't emit that much heat.

*is setting up a garter terrarium and figured asking here was better than making a new topic*

[infernalis]

However, in a larger tank could a undertank heater and a low wattage light be used at the same time on one side of the tank? The undertank heater would have a thermostat and be used to keep things stable, the light would be simply for basking pleasure as it wouldn't emit that much heat.

*is setting up a garter terrarium and figured asking here was better than making a new topic*

Unless you live in an igloo, just a basking light is plenty.

It's a lot easier to cook a garter snake than it is to chill one.

[Varanus]

Unless you live in an igloo, just a basking light is plenty.

It's a lot easier to cook a garter snake than it is to chill one.
But the temperature can fall pretty quickly from day to night where I live during the winter. It just seems like having the heat mat there and able to turn on if it suddenly gets too cold when the basking light is off (or if the bulb goes out) would be a good insurance policy. Basically the light wouldn't be there for heating as much as because I read that garters like having a light source.

[infernalis]

What I am trying to say is that Garter snakes are not tropical. I have literally found them in the snow (It's rare, but it does happen)

There would be no harm if you could maintain a floor temp around 70, but make sure their is a gradient, so the snake can thermoregulate.

These animals are used to sudden weather changes.

It's not like our four legged reptiles that need precise tropical conditions.

[Light of Dae]

You could use the heat pad at night n the bulb during the day.

Where do you live? I live in central Alberta, Canada. So I know about it getting cold at night.

All of my 17 garters were just fine when I was living in a house heated by wood stove, If we didn't wake up n stoke the fire it would get down to 12'c in the house n I just made sure I'd only feed them when it was warm in the house and that it stayed warm long enough to digest everything. They had heat pads on 24/7 but no basking light.
It's better now, in the house we just moved to, nice even heating :)

Point being they can do just fine getting little cool, worst that would happen is they may want to burmate n stop eating for a bit. However if they get to warm.. there is no coming back from that.

[Varanus]

You could use the heat pad at night n the bulb during the day.

Where do you live? I live in central Alberta, Canada. So I know about it getting cold at night.

North Texas, it's normally quite warm here even in winter but the weather is famously unpredictable. It can be in the seventies one day and freezing the next.

Also the garters I plan on getting are checkered garter snakes, which live in substantially warmer regions than the more northern varieties.

I guess now I am just trying to figure out a use for the heat pad since I already attached it.:) I'd figured that using a thermostat for the heat pad would keep it from getting too warm even with the low wattage light bulb.

[infernalis]

run the heat pad at night when the lamp is off..

I live in New York, I keep a very wide variety of Thamnophis species, including Snakes from Mexico and Texas.

Last winter we had a storm, it knocked out all my power for a whole day, and my garter snakes all did just fine.

I had one small propane space heater and that was it.

[d_virginiana]

I have a space heater in my reptile room. Works great for keeping the ambient temp at a good place, and I can just use supplemental heating/lighting for my tropical frog and as a basking area and UVB source for my turtle. I don't use any supplemental heat for my snakes. Usually just turning the tanks perpendicular to the space heater creates a pretty good heat gradient over the tank.

[ConcinusMan]

Having a thermostat that tells you the temp. is okay but a thermostat that controls and monitors the temp. is best.
May I suggest.
Amazon.com: Hydrofarm MTPRTC Digital Thermostat For Heat Mats: Patio, Lawn & Garden (http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-MTPRTC-Digital-Thermostat-Heat/dp/B000NZZG3S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1348838128&sr=8-1&keywords=hydrofarm+thermostat)



I highly recommend using Hyrdofarm heat mats too. More mat for the money, they don't get as hot as reptile mats which is perfect for garters, more flexible and durable. But you won't find them in reptile supply or at pet stores. They can be found at garden supply stores.


Adjust the timing every couple of weeks to more or less match your natural day length.

Unless of course you want to trick them into thinking it's a different time of year. Right now I got my non-brumating snakes on a 13 hour cycle but I keep adding 15 minutes or so every other week. I don't want them thinking it's time to brumate. I want them to think the opposite. That the days are getting longer, not shorter. Shrinking day length could trigger them to go off food and prepare to brumate. At least, that's the effect it has on my local snakes. They start congregating around the den areas, and northwesterns start fall mating, when the days get shorter than the nights (autumn solstice) regardless of the temperature. It could still be in the 90's but if the days are getting short, they respond accordingly.

[ConcinusMan]

Just heard on the news that the govt. is forcing the phasing out of incandescent household light bulbs. Sometime in 2014, their plan is that you won't even be able to buy them. You'll only be able to get compact florescents. That sucks. I guess it's going to be florescent tubes and ceramic heat emitters/undertank heaters from then on for me. I don't think it's going to apply to the pet supply business so you'll probably still be able to get those expensive UV reptile bulbs for your lizards. And then there's halogens for security lighting and whatnot. I think it's just the regular 40, 60, 100 watt bulbs that are going the way of the dinosaur.