Worms Questions

[Ctah_Lu]

Hi everybody, i have a few questions about worms as food for garters:

1.- Can i feed a garter with common earthworms or there is a special kind of worms?
2.- Are they parasit safe?, if not, What kind of parasites can contain the worms?

The reason for this questions is that i want to make a earthworm breeder to feed mi garter but i dont know very much about this kind of food.

Thanks, ill be waiting for an answer.

[guidofatherof5]

Feeding the correct worm is important. Remembering which worms not to feed makes it a lot easier. Avoid any compost worms. They are called redworms, panfish worms and compost worms. These worms are toxic to garters. From what I've read the risk of parasites is low.
If you are harvesting wild worms be sure the area they come from is safe, pesticide and herbicide free.

[Ctah_Lu]

thanks, so the right worm must look like this?

6926

[guidofatherof5]

Yes it is. Those make my snakes drool.

[Ctah_Lu]

then ill be searching tomorrow night for some of this, and the best part is that the rain will fall for a few more days.

if i make it with the worm breeder ill let you know later. thanks again.

[-MARWOLAETH-]

Earth worms take a long time to breed and grow so you'll have to be patient if you want to breed them ,it will most likely be easier to dig up a lot and keep them in a cold place like a fridge because they keep for months if they are kept cold.Here's a link to a care sheet on worms and also breeding information Earthworm Care Sheet - Earthworms as food for reptiles and amphibians - Feeder Insect culture care - The Reptilian.co.uk (http://www.thereptilian.co.uk/care_sheets/Earthworm_care_sheet_feeder_insect_culture_care.ht m)

[Ctah_Lu]

By the way, the redworms are toxic for all animals or only affects some reptile species?

[Invisible Snake]

By the way, the redworms are toxic for all animals or only affects some reptile species?

They are toxic to certain snakes like garters. Other animals can eat red worms, because through evolution they have developed an immunization to the toxicity of these worms.

[RedSidedSPR]

also called trout worms... By Walmart at least. Which, by the way, is a good source to get night crawlers (the safe ones) from if you can't find any.

[pinkypink]

also called trout worms... By Walmart at least. Which, by the way, is a good source to get night crawlers (the safe ones) from if you can't find any.

Is Walmart really a safe place? I want to buy larger amounts but Im not sure where is a good place to buy. Petsmart is just too expensive cause Im buying them as food...Im sure bait shops would be cheaper but Im afraid of what the worms have been feed or kept in. Is there anything to be concerned about?

[guidofatherof5]

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/sale-trade-adoption/11634-night-crawlers-my-cost.html (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/sale-trade-adoption/11634-night-crawlers-my-cost.html)

[Selkielass]

Is Walmart really a safe place? I want to buy larger amounts but Im not sure where is a good place to buy. Petsmart is just too expensive cause Im buying them as food...Im sure bait shops would be cheaper but Im afraid of what the worms have been feed or kept in. Is there anything to be concerned about?

I got a bad batch of nightcrawlers from walmart in July- gave my entire collection the runs. They were probably mishandled at the store level as the farm they came from has a good reputation.
I buy my worms from the busiest bait store in my area. They turn their stock fast so its as fresh and lively as possible.

[Greg'sGarters]

Don't buy anything worms unless it specifically says night crawlers or earthworms on the package. I'd recommend just buying a bunch and sticking them in the fridge. They can stay in the fridge for a pretty long time. It's a heck of a lot easier than finding them or breeding them.

[Greg'sGarters]

I got a bad batch of nightcrawlers from walmart in July- gave my entire collection the runs. They were probably mishandled at the store level as the farm they came from has a good reputation.
I buy my worms from the busiest bait store in my area. They turn their stock fast so its as fresh and lively as possible.

Yeah I wouldn't trust Walmart. Those people don't know a lot about a specific subject, they know a little about a lot of subjects. Go to a bait store where people know a lot more about earthworms than at Walmart.

[guidofatherof5]

I spoke with a DMF Bait representative on Thursday.
I had a few questions with regards to the keeping of their night crawlers.

#1. Question: What do you feed your worms?
Answer: Nothing, they eat whatever is in the bedding they are stored in. We don't raise them up. They are shipped in from Canada and stored before they are sold.

#2. Question: What are the worms stored in?
Answer: Michigan Peat Moss

Any problems at Walmart are probably due to them not checking their stock or monitoring of any sick or dead worms. "One dead worm does spoil the whole bunch girl"(Wasn't that a song by the Osmonds):D

[d_virginiana]

Yeah I wouldn't trust Walmart. Those people don't know a lot about a specific subject, they know a little about a lot of subjects. Go to a bait store where people know a lot more about earthworms than at Walmart.

I've never had any problems with WalMart DMF worms, but I do always have to check and make sure I'm getting a good batch. With any worms IMO, it's good to sniff the container before each feeding. Even if the worms are still alive, I've thrown out entire batches because I could smell E. coli in the container (I work in a lab, so I'm more familiar with the smell than I'd like to be :p ) I imagine that would make a snake pretty sick if it ate one.

I'd be worried using bait store worms unless they bought from a specific brand that I knew was safe... The bait store guys might be more knowledgeable about the worms, but not necessarily about reptiles.

[d_virginiana]

Any problems at Walmart are probably due to them not checking their stock or monitoring of any sick or dead worms. "One dead worm does spoil the whole bunch girl"(Wasn't that a song by the Osmonds):D

My favorite is when you open the container and find nothing but a frozen cylinder of soil with worm ice-sculptures sticking out of it.

[guidofatherof5]

My favorite is when you open the container and find nothing but a frozen cylinder of soil with worm ice-sculptures sticking out of it.

I always enjoy the fuzzy caterpillars.:D

[Light of Dae]

When I buy worms I ALWAYS open the tub n look at what is inside. I also smell it... You can smell if they have gotten frozen or to hot.

Be AWARE that some places have Mis-Labeled worms. I found a number of times the tub said Trout Worms but they were NOT red worms nor did they emit a foul slime. They were safe and proper night crawlers/dew worms, Simply labeled wrong.

Always check.

[Artic Exotics]

Dont mean to thread rob here but another quick question on worms, can they be frozen/thawed without effect to their nutritional value? Or anything else I should know about doing that? I know if certain things are frozen they will break down.

This has been an ongoing problem for me as there are no locally available earthworms (not even outside in the garden- its called permafrost for a reason lol) in the winter and likelihood of receiving live ie non frozen solid feeders in dead winter is well.... unlikely in my area. But I would like to be able to keep worms in my garters feed rotation during the winter for once (I have not been able to do so since 2009).

The only way I think this could be accomplished is to buy in bulk and see if some survive the trip up, and even at that it only gives me 5 weeks or so a batch with massive die off and a considerable expense. But this problem could be solved if I could store worms frozen like I would do with fish or pinks... and get the snakes to eat them thawed of course.. Thoughts?

[d_virginiana]

Dont mean to thread rob here but another quick question on worms, can they be frozen/thawed without effect to their nutritional value? Or anything else I should know about doing that? I know if certain things are frozen they will break down.

This has been an ongoing problem for me as there are no locally available earthworms (not even outside in the garden- its called permafrost for a reason lol) in the winter and likelihood of receiving live ie non frozen solid feeders in dead winter is well.... unlikely in my area. But I would like to be able to keep worms in my garters feed rotation during the winter for once (I have not been able to do so since 2009).

The only way I think this could be accomplished is to buy in bulk and see if some survive the trip up, and even at that it only gives me 5 weeks or so a batch with massive die off and a considerable expense. But this problem could be solved if I could store worms frozen like I would do with fish or pinks... and get the snakes to eat them thawed of course.. Thoughts?

If you freeze/thaw a worm you will end up with goo. I've never heard of anyone successfully feeding f/t worms.

Is there any way you can order some and then breed your own? All it takes is soil, powdered worm food, and a tupperware container. The upside is that it doesn't take a lot of space and you can keep them indoors. As long as they aren't frozen solid they don't need to be kept warm to stay alive.

[guidofatherof5]

I use them too quickly to ever breed them.:D

[Light of Dae]

You can keep them in a fridge, they last quite some time in there. Or keep them at room temp in lots of soil and pick at them when needed. Little cooler then warm is better.

[RedSidedSPR]

Do. Not. Freeze. Worms. Ever.

I tried it. Out of curiousity.

It didn't work.

[RedSidedSPR]

Is Walmart really a safe place? I want to buy larger amounts but Im not sure where is a good place to buy. Petsmart is just too expensive cause Im buying them as food...Im sure bait shops would be cheaper but Im afraid of what the worms have been feed or kept in. Is there anything to be concerned about?

Sorry I never got back to that. Yes, I consider Walmart a safe place to get them. It's not Walmart doing the breeding, it's the DMF Bait company.

Never had any problems with Walmart as a source.

Except for the problem of them only containing 20 worms.. I'd breed, but I'd end up feeding all the breeders :p

[guidofatherof5]

Sorry I never got back to that. Yes, I confided Walmart a safe place to get them. It's not Walmart doing the breeding, it's the DMF Bait company.

Never had any problems with Walmart as a source.

Except for the problem of them only containing 20 worms.. I'd breed, but I'd end up feeding all the breeders :p


DMF doesn't breed them.

[RedSidedSPR]

Oh.


.. Who does?

[guidofatherof5]

Oh.


.. Who does?

No Idea. DMF buys them from Canada and has them shipped into the U.S. I don't know if they are W/C or C/B.

[RedSidedSPR]

I see.. You haven't had any problems with DMF though, right? You use them don't you?

[guidofatherof5]

Been using them for the last 3 years with little to no trouble.

[Selkielass]

They're not far from me.
Would anyone be interested in a thamnophis.com exclusive story about their operation?
I can call and see if they'd be willing to have a visit/ interview, but I'd need somebody else to help out as editor (text and pictures)

[guidofatherof5]

I would love to help.

[Selkielass]

Cool. I'll contact them and see if they would welcome a visit/interview from a pet community that relies on their products.

Any questions people want me to ask, or pictures people would like to see? ( If permitted.)

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah, I'm interested to know if they realize how many people buy worms and aren't buying them for use as bait. I mean , lots of people buy them for turtles, snakes, birds, etc. Mention it when asking for the interview. Maybe they will see this as an opportunity to target a customer base that they didn't know existed. Know what I mean?

I've only seen their brand in sporting good sections for fish bait. Other brands can sometimes be found in pet stores such as petco. I know that the one right by my house has them. They feed them to turtles/ tortoises. (they have quite the selection of them) Of course, they're twice the cost as getting them in the sporting goods section of any variety store. They sure as heck don't sell them as bait. They're pet food.

[Artic Exotics]

Do. Not. Freeze. Worms. Ever.

I tried it. Out of curiousity.

It didn't work.

Well put redsides :-) I think thats why i never actually went through with it.