begining breeder

[big J]

I am extremely interested in breeding my garters next year. I have pairs of eastern, blue striped, and hopefully indonesian garters.I plan on brumating them in a small fridge kept at 55*f. How should I condition the female when they emerge. How do you care for the young.

[Snaky]

It's more or less the same as for handling the adults, but smaller. So: small pieces of fish, earthworms, pieces of pinkies.... Sometime's you need to 'trick' them into eating, you can do this by cutting the earthworm into pieces (so they still move) or offering life fish in shallow water.

For the indonesian garter: I've always heard that they need to be kept warm. But I don't own them and have never looked it up, so hopefully someone else will answer that for you.

[Stefan-A]

It would make sense to me not to brumate tropical species the same way. The way to brumate them appears (I'm trying to do a bit of research as I write this) to be to shorten the light period and lower the night temperature.

I don't know if it's how it works with indonesian garters, but it would make sense to me to apply the same methods to them. If nobody else can tell you the correct way to brumate them, my suggestion is to use the same methods that are used with other tropical snakes, for example ball pythons.

[KITKAT]

To add to that...

Look at the weather records for the area where your snakes originate. Is there a cooler, rainy season? If so, what temperatures are recorded for that period of the year?

Then your brumation should mimic that temperature.;)

[ssssnakeluvr]

a fridge is not the best place to brumate.....a cool basement or garage is better. fridges can be humid and that can lead to skin problems that can kill your snakes (had it happen!)

[drache]

I've not checked exact climate conditions in Indonesia, but I doubt it ever gets near freezing there
I would imagine that their breeding cycles would be more tied to the rain cycles
also - they're egg laying, not live bearing, so there's that whole other issue of providing proper egg laying sites
I have a pair of them myself and will be doing more research on their native habitat and preferences

[Elliot]

I've not checked exact climate conditions in Indonesia, but I doubt it ever gets near freezing there
I would imagine that their breeding cycles would be more tied to the rain cycles
also - they're egg laying, not live bearing, so there's that whole other issue of providing proper egg laying sites
I have a pair of them myself and will be doing more research on their native habitat and preferences

I also heard that Indoneisians aren't actually true garters, is this right?

[Stefan-A]

I also heard that Indoneisians aren't actually true garters, is this right?
Yes. They're painted keelbacks (Xenochrophis), not garters (Thamnophis).

[Elliot]

Yes. They're painted keelbacks (Xenochrophis), not garters (Thamnophis).

Ok, thanks!

[big J]

thanx for all the info guys I did not know that indos were egg layers one problem I don't a basement or garage any suugestions

[drache]

Yes. They're painted keelbacks (Xenochrophis), not garters (Thamnophis).

painted keelback = xenochrophis cerasogaster
striped keelback = xenochrophis vittatus (the ones we have)
but definitely not garters - thamnophis - anything

[Stefan-A]

They're all painted keelbacks. It's the same as with garter snakes, the original garter snake is T. sirtalis. That's what the word sirtalis means; "Like a garter". Thamnophis, by the way, is derived from the words for "bush" and "snake".

Simply calling them keelbacks isn't recommended either, because that refers to the genus Rhabdophis.

[drache]

They're all painted keelbacks..

you probably have better sources that I do, Staphan
the source I used listed the painted keelback as a separate species from the banded or striped Keelback. It also listed seven other species with various common names (Boulanger's, chequered, yellow-spotted, etc)
All of these are referred to as keepbacks.
There is also a painted keelback among the tropidonophis species, but I couldn't find that common name among the rhabdophis species
of course my actual experience of any of these is nil

[Snaky]

Maybe an addict is an idea?

[adamanteus]

To add to that...

Look at the weather records for the area where your snakes originate. Is there a cooler, rainy season? If so, what temperatures are recorded for that period of the year?

Then your brumation should mimic that temperature.;)

To add a little more....
Sometimes the cue to trigger breeding behaviour can be even more subtle in some species from warmer climes. Something as obscure as the arrival of a particular food species can trigger changes in behaviour. Probably not relevant to Xenochrophis, but I thought I'd mention it.