Breeding between species and subspecies?

[Eloanne]

Hello,
I have any questions about species and breeding. Can we breed two species? Sauritus with sirtalis for example? And between subspecies? Which species can't be bred? I have three females T. Sirtalis sirtalis and would like to find a great male, but have I to find another T.s.s. or can I breed them with a T. Sirtalis annectens for example?
I know these questions are stupid, but I'm a little beginner :p

[snake man]

If i were you i would stick to the same sub species.

[guidofatherof5]

Interbreeding species/subspecies is not a good thing.

Muddies the gene pool and creates mutts. It's a bad thing.

Same species/subspecies + same species/subspecies is acceptable

Just my opinion.

[ConcinusMan]

This question has been asked a lot of times. Garter snake enthusiasts are "purists" generally speaking. There's enough variety of beautiful garters just sticking with pure breeds and the various morphs of those. There is no market for "mutt" garters, and the market is here on the forum. You'll get a resounding "no" to crossbreeds. And when I say "crossbreeds" I mean, even crossing subspecies. Say, T. sirtalis pickeringi X T. sirtalis concinnus.

Some go so far as to only want "locality" breeding matches. In other words, they don't want to breed (for example) a T. sirtalis concinnus' from SW WA to one from say, the southern Willamette valley of Oregon. In many cases, there's a very noticeable difference even among the same species/subspecies depending on locality. IMO, I don't think there's anything wrong with breeding different localities. Sometimes one does not know where their snakes come from, but if you're sure they are both the same species/subspecies, than it's OK. I once bred T. s. concinnus' , one from NW Oregon, the other from SW WA. The resulting offspring were pure concinnus, but much prettier than either of the parents.

That is not the case when you cross two different species or subspecies. The result is almost always a litter of "mutts" that do not look as pretty as either of the pure parents. In other words, they usually look like ****.

[Eloanne]

Thank you very much for your detailed responses. I'm cat breeder and I know that many cats breeders cross two different species or subspecies of cats. Sometimes it's possible and allowed, sometines it isn't because babies look like bad mutts. I have munchkin cats and sphynx at home and we are very "purists" too, so I totally understand what you say ^^
I know there are a lot of morphs in each subspecies (I have maybe four different colors in my current litter), but I didn't know if they came from a cross of genes between species (like some cat's species) or a natural evolution in the subspecies. So thanks again :)

[ConcinusMan]

No, some morphs are mutated recessive genes, such as albino, anerythristic, melanistic, and a few others. Those are found in the wild and people breed to select those genes to produce the morphs in captivity. Some morphs are just natural variation or polymorphism. A "snow" is the result of combining two recessive genes which both get expressed in a single snake. That one would not likely occur in nature, but the two recessive traits needed to make them are both found in the wild. None of these morphs are produced by crossing species or subspecies. Like we were saying, crossbreeding garters is generally frowned upon.

[Greg'sGarters]

I would recommend finding another T.s. sirtalis. Usually, when you breed 2 species of snake together, the babies are little beauties. This is NOT the case with garters. Usually breeders or hobbyists don't want garters that have been hybridized. For the results you will get from hybridizing garters, its just not worth the effort.