2 new babies!

[poissonguppy]

So, lately I had seen garter snakes around my holly and hosta bushes but they've always been to fast for me to catch. One day my dog was sniffing under a rock and I went outside to investigate. I hadn't put my contacts in so when I lifted the rock, I just saw a mass of black and yellow. I grabbed a little blindly and found out I had fished out two baby garters! I put them into a tank with paper towels, a couple rocks, and a saucer of water. They are inseperable, sleeping together, drinking together, even exploring together! And now I guess I just have a couple of beginner questions.
Although I shouldn't be worrying (but I always do), the larger of the two is eating while the smaller isn't. I've put him in a tub alone with an earthworm but he still doesn't eat. It's been a couple of days... How often and how much should I feed both? And what should I do about the finicky feeder?
Also, the two babies are pretty aggressive. Both coil and try to bite whenever I reach my hand into the tank. Is this normal? Thanks.

(I posted a while back about a pregnant garter, and never really updated. I had to go on a week long trip and though she probably would have survived it, I didn't want to have to deal with the worry.)

[adamanteus]

Hi Bibi, good to hear from you again. That was pretty brave, grabbing those snakes even though you couldn't see what they were!

I think you do right to feed these two separately, don't want any accidents! You can feed them as much as they'll eat for now. With the awkward feeder, just keep trying as wide a variety of food items as you can. I'm sure it will soon eat. Good luck.

[Odie]

Hi, from Oregon, Bibi :)

[drache]

welcome again, Bibi
looks like you are going to stick around
congrats
your garters will probably mellow as they get used to being handled
make sure you don't have any smell of something they might like to eat on your fingers

[poissonguppy]

Thanks guys. How often should I feed babies?

[adamanteus]

I generally feed babies every two or three days.

[Snaky]

In the first months I feed every 3-4 days and as much as they want.

[Thamnophis]

I feed them about two times per week till they reach the brumation-period.
After the brumation they go to about once a week.

[poissonguppy]

Yay! I had to go on a trip that took two days. When I came back, I found a snake skin. The smaller garter, the one that wasn't eating, had shed while I was gone. I stuck in a worm and he ate it! :)

It seems that the larger snake is about to shed. He was settled in a container filled with damp paper towels and his eyes were a blue-ish color. Compared to the smaller garter, the larger one seems really dull and pale.

[poissonguppy]

Here are some pics of the smaller snake. Can anyone tell the species? I'm no good at it....

http://www.geocities.com/poissonguppy/IMG_9171.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/poissonguppy/IMG_9177.JPG

Also, I'm confused about the classifications of garters. Dog is one species, but there are many breeds. Are garters the same thing, or is an eastern a different species than a wandering?

[adamanteus]

I'm confused about the classifications of garters. Dog is one species, but there are many breeds. Are garters the same thing, or is an eastern a different species than a wandering?

Yeah, different species, same genus.

[garterchick]

hi, i suck at snake i.d., but is that a plains garter, t. radix?
tina

[adamanteus]

hi, i suck at snake i.d., but is that a plains garter, t. radix?
tina

Your ID skills seem pretty sharp to me!:rolleyes: T.radix.

[KITKAT]

Here are some pics of the smaller snake. Can anyone tell the species? I'm no good at it....

Also, I'm confused about the classifications of garters. Dog is one species, but there are many breeds. Are garters the same thing, or is an eastern a different species than a wandering?

Hi there! I understand your confusion... but yes, these are different species. Instead of thinking about dogs, think about birds. Bird hobbyists keep many different SPECIES of birds... canary, budgie, Zebra Finch, Society Finch, to name just a few of the hundreds that are kept.

Garter snakes are like the finch family. They are all related, but there are MANY species of finches, and they do not interbreed... you cannot breed a Cordon Blue to a Society, or a Zebra Finch to a Gouldian Finch.

In the scientific name of the garter snake, you will always find "Thamnophis". This is the genus of the snake... a classification of snakes that are similar but different species. The next word you find is the species... "sirtalis", "radix", "elegans" for some examples.

And the third word in the name - when you find a third one - is the subspecies.

So... T sirtalis sirtalis is the common eastern gartersnake, but T sirtalis similis is the blue-striped subspecies found in northwestern Florida.

You will find a pretty comprehensive list of species and subspecies if you look at Scott Felzer's OLD site: Scott Felzer's Garter Snakes (http://www.gartersnakemorphs.com/price.html)

I will copy the list here for your convenience... but let me explain a bit...

The gold text is a species or a subspecies. However, the blue text below each gold entry is a MORPH... the equivalent of a dog breed for that species.

Looking at our list, you can see that there are some garters with only one "morph"... such as Santa Cruz, Eastern Black-necked, California Red Sided... and so on.

But you can also see some species that have a huge number of available color and pattern morphs, such as the Eastern Garter, with 12 different morphs, or the Plains Garter, with 10.

So... if you want to breed garters, you need to purchase the same species. Two T sirtalis sirtalis (eastern garter). But if you want the fun of producing unusual colors, you purchase two of the same morph, or one from each of two morphs, such as T sirtalis sirtalis "flame", or T sirtalis sirtalis "albino".

Does that make it clearer?;)


SANTA CRUZ GARTER SNAKE
( Thamnophis atratus atratus )
One-Striped Morph (http://www.gartersnakemorphs.com/atratus.html)

EASTERN BLACK-NECKED GARTER
( Thamnophis cyrtopsis )
Eastern Black-Necked (http://www.gartersnakemorphs.com/blackneck.html)

WANDERING GARTER SNAKE
( Thamnophis elegans vagrans )
Normal Wandering (http://www.gartersnakemorphs.com/neleg.html)
Melanistic Wandering (http://www.gartersnakemorphs.com/melanistic_wandering.html)
Chocolate Wandering (http://www.gartersnakemorphs.com/chocolate.html)

EASTERN (http://www.gartersnakemorphs.com/desc/easterngarter.html) GARTER SNAKE
( Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis )
Normal (http://www.gartersnakemorphs.com/normal_eastern.html)
Albino (http://www.gartersnakemorphs.com/albino_easterns.html)
Silver (http://www.gartersnakemorphs.com/silver.html)
Granite (http://www.gartersnakemorphs.com/granite.html)
Melanistic (http://www.gartersnakemorphs.com/mel.html)
Florida Blue (http://www.gartersnakemorphs.com/fl.html)
Flames (http://www.gartersnakemorphs.com/bfla.html)
Flame x Albino (http://www.gartersnakemorphs.com/flame-albino.html)
Erythristic (Extreme Reds) (http://www.gartersnakemorphs.com/redeast.html)
Erythristic x Albino (http://www.gartersnakemorphs.com/erythristic-albino.html)
Snow Eastern (http://www.gartersnakemorphs.com/snoweast.html)
Paradox Leucistic (http://www.gartersnakemorphs.com/paradox-leucistic.html)

CALIFORNIA RED-SIDED GARTER SNAKE
( Thamnophis sirtalis infernalis )
California Red-Sided (http://www.gartersnakemorphs.com/infernalis.html)

BLUE STRIPED GARTER SNAKE
( Thamnophis sirtalis similis )
True Blue Striped (http://www.gartersnakemorphs.com/trueblue.html)

RED SIDED GARTER SNAKE
( Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis )
Normal Red Sided (http://www.gartersnakemorphs.com/nreds.html)
Anerythristic Red Sided (http://www.gartersnakemorphs.com/areds.html)
Albino Red Sided (http://www.gartersnakemorphs.com/albred.html)
Double Het for Snow Red Sided (http://www.gartersnakemorphs.com/double_snow_het.html)

PLAINS GARTER SNAKE
( Thamnophis radix )
Normal Plains (http://www.gartersnakemorphs.com/nplain.html)
Anerythristic Plains (http://www.gartersnakemorphs.com/aplain.html)
Axanthic Plains (http://www.gartersnakemorphs.com/axanthic_plains.html)
Albino Plains (http://www.gartersnakemorphs.com/alplain.html)
Quad Hets (http://www.gartersnakemorphs.com/quad_het_plains.html)
Christmas Albino Plains (http://www.gartersnakemorphs.com/christplains.html)
Super Christmas Albino Plains (http://www.gartersnakemorphs.com/super_xmas_albino_plains.html)
Piebald Anerythristic (http://www.gartersnakemorphs.com/piebald.html)
Hybino Plains (http://www.gartersnakemorphs.com/red_hybino.html)
Snow Plains (http://www.gartersnakemorphs.com/splain.html)
MESOAMERICAN HIGHLANDS GARTER SNAKE
( Thamnophis fulvus )
Mesoamerican Highlands (http://www.gartersnakemorphs.com/mesoamerican-highlands.html)

[garterchick]

thanks james, i actually cheated by just comparing the picture to my own snakes. i guess that's how we all start out...
tina

[poissonguppy]

Thanks Tina, James, and Kitkat! I live in Nebraska and so that would fit. Sorry I ask so many questions, I need things explained to me in length sometimes...