Experienced Breeders' Advice Needed

[katach]

Hi all. I have 3 females I want to breed next year. I want to do a proper brumation. Here is my current situation. We live in a 1 bedroom apartment. We want to brumate 5 snakes, 1.2 ordinoides and 1.1 pickeringii. We don't have a garage or any type of outdoor storage. My questions are

1. Can we brumate them all together or should the NW and pugets be done in separate containers?

2. What would be the best way to go about this given our space and living situation?

3. How long should they be brumated for breeding?

4. How often do you change their water during brumation?

5. Do different species require different temps? What are the ideal temps?

6. What kind of container should be used?


I live in kitsap county Washington. We usually start getting chilly toward the end of September. Thank you guys for your knowledge and advice!

[Stefan-A]

1. Can we brumate them all together or should the NW and pugets be done in separate containers?
I'd separate them by sex or species, just to be safe.


2. What would be the best way to go about this given our space and living situation?
Fridge on a separate thermostat, unless the temperature can be kept at a safe level with its own.


3. How long should they be brumated for breeding?
At least a month, maybe.


4. How often do you change their water during brumation?
Once a week.


5. Do different species require different temps? What are the ideal temps?
Yes, some of the temperatures suitable for southern species won't even slow down some northern species (personal observation involving T. sirtalis tetrataenia and T. elegans vagrans). 5-10 degrees Celsius for northern (or presumably more cold-tolerant) species, 10-12 for southern, IMHO.


6. What kind of container should be used?
Anything properly ventilated. Doesn't need to be bigger than to hold the snakes plus the water bowl. The snakes will not be moving around much.

[Invisible Snake]

2. What would be the best way to go about this given our space and living situation?

You could buy a mini fridge and brumate them in there, you can place them in enclosures that are right next to the window and keep that window open slightly or if you have a fire-escape you can place them there, but you would always have to watch out for rain, snow, direct sunlight, neighbors, wild animals, etc.

[katach]

No fire escape and and the apartment is too small to keep a window open all the time. We are looking into getting a mini fridge on craigslist so far they don't seem to be expensive so i think that is probably what we will go with. Do we need to open the fridge at all other than to change the water to give them air?

[Stefan-A]

Do we need to open the fridge at all other than to change the water to give them air?
I seem to recall that some who brumate their animals in fridges open the door once a day.

[katach]

That's what i figured, I just thought i would check. Thanks!

[guidofatherof5]

Sounds like you are on your way.
I use the worm fridge for brumation (when I do)
Set on the warmest temp I get 43°F/6.1C in the bottom.

[snakeman]

I always kept my fridge cracked open.never closed it.otherwise it got too cold.plus the airflow is important.if you are breeding them two months is minimum in my opinion

[Stefan-A]

That's what i figured, I just thought i would check. Thanks!
I would like to add as a caveat, that I wouldn't apply the term "experienced breeder" to myself. Having one's snakes reproduce a few times doesn't make a person a breeder, much less an experienced breeder. In my opinion.

[ConcinusMan]

I seem to recall that some who brumate their animals in fridges open the door once a day.

yeah, the mini fridges can be costly. I've heard that people use them, and just leave the door cracked a bit, keeping the snakes at upper 40's to low 50's. Seems like a PITA to me, and I can think of many potential problems that might arise.

Last time I brumated, I put the snakes in well ventilated plastic tubs with paper towels for substrate. As was stated, it only needs to be big enough to hold the snakes and water dish. Having an unheated garage, I simply put them out there when the weather got cold enough. I monitored the temperature closely from inside the house by using a thermometer with a radio transmitter and receiving station in the house. I set the max and min temperature limits so an alarm would go off should the temperature fall too low or too high. I brumate for at least 60 days. I realize this is no solution in your situation. I still think that the fridge idea can be too risky.

[katach]

Thanks guys!! I'm really excited to get to breeding. I will be breeding Willow and Mocha to Tim and Toothless to Twitch.
You think I should get another male NW or will Tim be able to take care of both of the ladies, or should I only brumate 1 to 1? If so I will hold out Willow.

Willow
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/848/dsc01980qp.jpg
Mocha
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg801/scaled.php?server=801&filename=20120707203044.jpg&res=landing
Tim
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/122/imag0982w.jpg
Toothless
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg835/scaled.php?server=835&filename=dsc02472yv.jpg&res=landing
Twitch
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg580/scaled.php?server=580&filename=imag1023k.jpg&res=landing

[ConcinusMan]

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg835/scaled.php?server=835&filename=dsc02472yv.jpg&res=landing

Man, that is a gorgeous puget. Blues. Who needs 'em.

[katach]

Thanks Richard!

[guidofatherof5]

I'm sure Tim will be more then capable for service both ladies and he'll do it with a smile.:D

[katach]

Oh good!! :D

[guidofatherof5]

My male garters are not much for cuddling or spending time with me. They are the opposite of my females.
They want fed and the ladies only.:D

[katach]

The Pugets are like that, but the NW are a little more cuddly.

[Invisible Snake]

Make sure before you put any of your snakes into brumation that you give them at least 2 weeks without food and then put them in the fridge.

[guidofatherof5]

Make sure before you put any of your snakes into brumation that you give them at least 2 weeks without food and then put them in the fridge.

Good reminder. Very important the stomach is empty.

[katach]

Yeah we had planned to start brumation the 1st of October so we are going to cut them off September 16th.

[guidofatherof5]

Yeah we had planned to start brumation the 1st of October so we are going to cut them off September 16th.

2 weeks of "I'm starving" looks.

[katach]

I must be strong! :D

[thamneil]

We're you going to go with the fridge then? I'll be brumatipng sometime in the future and was wondering the same thing. Future Shop had some lovely thermostatically controlled wine coolers for sale...

[Light of Dae]

Now That's an idea! You can get wine coolers that would be PERFECT for a small batch of snake lovers! The ones I've seen have a glass door, and thermostatically controlled to maintain temp .. just wonder what temp range it would have..

[snake man]

What is the average price range of one of these?

[Light of Dae]

Anywhere from 100bucks to 600bucks...

[thamneil]

The ones I saw could easily hold 15 or 20 snakes. Glass door and everything! Around $100.

[katach]

That cost is too high. I'll stick to the $20-$30 mini fridge. :D