Crushed babies?

[Bear-Cat]

So our snake gave birth on August 9th, we have looked up boatloads of care guides on them. They are feeding on fresh farm raised tilapia that we buy from the grocery store with no additives, no nothing, just straight up fish. I'm only having 5-6 babies out of previously 16 eating food. I spend about 2 hours with them each day, doing everything I can to get them to eat. Some just aren't interested, some gobble it down as soon as they see it. I have read that some people have had troubles getting their little ones to eat, so I thought nothing of it, as it hasn't quite been 3 weeks yet. I have been dusting their fish with reptical calcium, but more importantly I just want them to eat.

I went to feed them today, and there was an overturned baby, crushed, biting his side, floppy and cold, already dead. Thing is, this is a baby that hadn't eaten food. And just a few minutes ago, there was a baby that suddenly started flailing and spazzing around, his sides crushing in. I'm pretty sure he's dead now. Yet another baby that hasn't eaten. I'm not quite sure what's going on. I had at first thought that the first baby was possibly defective, as he didn't respond quite like the other snakes (allowing me to just pick him up and move him around without any reaction), but this snake was perfectly fine other than the fact he hadn't eaten.

They are on papertowel bedding, their water is fresh filtered water that sits out for a while before I give it to them, in a well thoroughly cleaned pickle jar lid. (Didn't clean it with soap or bleach, just ran hot water over it for a long time.) They are all staying hydrated, I keep moist papertowels in their hides which were toilet paper tubes, but I took those out temporarily to find out the cause of their random crushing.

I would appreciate any and all help I can get, I can't find any info about this, and I'm starting to get worried about them ._. (More so than when they were born, lol. stressful.)
Thanks in advance.

[jitami]

Man, so sorry to hear about the lost babies. I sure hope someone has some insight. This baby raising stuff really is stressful!

[ssssnakeluvr]

a lot of babies will only start on live fish or worms..... takes time to work them onto chopped fish. those that are feeding on chopped fish should do well.... you should separate them from the others to monitor feeding. some babies will not make it, that's nature. it's called failure to thrive. I have had a few die, occasionally see one that has grabbed himself....I don't know why they do that either. they could be thin due to not eating...

[Light of Dae]

Nerological issues? what is the breeding pair? are they related?

How often are the moist paper towel changed? They can get moldy fast without looking moldy. I use moss it lasts longer and has anti-bacterial and anti-fungal properties.

[Bear-Cat]

a lot of babies will only start on live fish or worms..... takes time to work them onto chopped fish. those that are feeding on chopped fish should do well.... you should separate them from the others to monitor feeding. some babies will not make it, that's nature. it's called failure to thrive. I have had a few die, occasionally see one that has grabbed himself....I don't know why they do that either. they could be thin due to not eating...
I have heard that a lot of babies take to chopped up pinkies without bones. I was going to the petstore tomorrow to attempt that.
The majority of them are nice and thick, it could just be the frail ones in this batch that are having the failure to thrive..

[Bear-Cat]

Nerological issues? what is the breeding pair? are they related?

How often are the moist paper towel changed? They can get moldy fast without looking moldy. I use moss it lasts longer and has anti-bacterial and anti-fungal properties.
I haven't the slightest clue as to who bred with her, we found her in our parking lot when it was snowing, and she wasn't moving.
We change the paper towels every 1-2 days, they poop a lot. I wish we could get moss, they would really enjoy burrowing in it, but that's not really viable.. No stores around here sell moss. But we do change the towels often.

[joeyjoe9876]

if you have a home depot near you they will most likely carry some sphagnum moss you could get.

[Invisible Snake]

I have heard that a lot of babies take to chopped up pinkies without bones. I was going to the petstore tomorrow to attempt that.
The majority of them are nice and thick, it could just be the frail ones in this batch that are having the failure to thrive..

In my personal opinion I think it's a little early to start them on chopped up pinks considering they are only a few weeks old. Try getting them to eat live feeder fish and/or chopped up nightcrawlers consistently and then in another month you can start mixing in the pinks.

Feel free to post pics of the babies and the mom :D

[-MARWOLAETH-]

They could have not eaten because they where put off by calcium powder.My snake hates the stuff.

[Light of Dae]

I haven't the slightest clue as to who bred with her, we found her in our parking lot when it was snowing, and she wasn't moving.
We change the paper towels every 1-2 days, they poop a lot. I wish we could get moss, they would really enjoy burrowing in it, but that's not really viable.. No stores around here sell moss. But we do change the towels often.

That could be it, right there. ... maybe.

[Bear-Cat]

They could have not eaten because they where put off by calcium powder.My snake hates the stuff.
Yeah, I have only dusted their food once so far, and the same 5-6 ate it down with no second thoughts.

[Bear-Cat]

That could be it, right there. ... maybe.
Well she's really healthy and active now, moves around like fierce lightning. But yeah, her being wild probably has a lot to do with it.

[EasternGirl]

Wayne told me about a trick to getting babies to eat...he makes this stuff called Garter Goulash...you can make it like he does or do a variation on it. At the pet store...they should have something called Reptamin...they are little tiny sticks of food for turtles...now Wayne dices up pieces of fish and pinky and mixes it all together and then grounds up a couple of the reptamin sticks into a powder and mixes that in with it until you have a sort of mush...and feeds his babies with it. For my babies...I sometimes crush up the reptamin...just one or two of the little sticks, and mix it in with worms...or fish...or pinkies...chopped up into little tiny pieces. Garters seem to really love the taste of reptamin and it has vitamins in it. It works well for my picky eaters to get them started...I don't use it every feeding. Calcium powder turns off some of my snakes too. And as others have said, worms are good to start with...I mainly feed my babies worms...although they will eat fish and pinky too. Also...as others have said...some babies just don't make it. I have a very thin baby that I am desperately trying to get to eat...don't know if she will make it or not. She is pretty floppy and docile too.

Really sorry to hear about the little ones that you lost.

[paulh]

So our snake gave birth on August 9th, we have looked up boatloads of care guides on them. They are feeding on fresh farm raised tilapia that we buy from the grocery store with no additives, no nothing, just straight up fish. ...
Sorry to hear about the lost babies. :(

Can't help with the nonfeeders except to suggest small worms fresh from the garden, if possible. I also wondered about the tilapia. Is it the whole fish or just meat without any bones or internal organs like stomach, liver, kidneys, etc? The liver, bones, etc. are needed for a balanced diet. The babies that are feeding now will only last a few months on muscle meat alone before deficiencies get them.

[EasternGirl]

Good point...I never feed garters a fish only diet. Not using fillets anyway. I would be especially careful with babies to vary the diet if you are feeding fish fillet. Get some worms in there. :)

[Bear-Cat]

Sorry to hear about the lost babies. :(

Can't help with the nonfeeders except to suggest small worms fresh from the garden, if possible. I also wondered about the tilapia. Is it the whole fish or just meat without any bones or internal organs like stomach, liver, kidneys, etc? The liver, bones, etc. are needed for a balanced diet. The babies that are feeding now will only last a few months on muscle meat alone before deficiencies get them.
It's just the meat, I tried the reptimin ground up on the little pieces of meat, and I only had one eat it.

[Bear-Cat]

Good point...I never feed garters a fish only diet. Not using fillets anyway. I would be especially careful with babies to vary the diet if you are feeding fish fillet. Get some worms in there. :)
I was thinking of worms from the garden, but didn't know what kind they were and didn't want to kill them harder.
Later on down their lives we are going to mix pinkies into their diet. Cutting up these huge night crawlers isn't really an option - it isn't a matter of I feel disgusted by it, it's their bowels get everywhere all over everything. The worms in our flowerbed are much more manageable, if they are safe that is.

They don't have red bands around their bodies and look like regular earthworms.

[paulh]

The description sounds like regular earthworms.

[guidofatherof5]

If they are a pale colored worms it is probably some type of earthworm which is safe.

The bowels and everything is just worm gravy to the snakes. It will hep carry the scent to the snakes and help stimulate a feeding responses.
I have snakes that will drink that up. Plenty of nutrients in it.

[Bear-Cat]

I had better luck cutting up night crawlers this time. No gushing disgusting mess, just straight up slicing. Helps having a good knife! They are eating the same night crawlers that their mother eats like candy, DMF from Walmart. Still only getting those same babies eating, and the count is now up to 4 gone.
The babies are getting really antsy and jumpy. I'm thinking about separating the bigger babies from the tiny ones.

[Bear-Cat]

I'm getting some of them to eat the cut up worms, but the ones that are disinterested crawl up to the piece of worm and sniff it, rub their faces on it, get stuck to it, and run away from it. I don't know what else I can do to encourage the rest to eat. D:

[jitami]

Are you able to get feeder guppies at all? Live fish really isn't my first choice, but they do seem to get the babies actively interested in eating.

LOL at cutting up worms. The first time I cut up a worm my kids were sitting across from me at our kitchen bar eating their breakfast. At the first cut worm juice squirted up into my face! ICK! The kids were cracking up laughing... they thought it was hilarious! Me, not so much :) Now I run them under hot tap water for a second, which kills them nearly instantly, and then cut with scissors... holding them and the worm at arm's length! lol

[Invisible Snake]

Are you able to get feeder guppies at all? Live fish really isn't my first choice, but they do seem to get the babies actively interested in eating. I agree. I'm a huge proponent in feeding live feeder guppies to newborn garters, it stimulates the feeding response.

[Bear-Cat]

Unfortunately, Petsmart has a 1.00 per guppy sale going on, so they are constantly sold out, and they refuse to sell babies. I'm kind of offended that our breeders all died of old age before we got baby garters. All other pet stores around here do not have good stock (they look dead/dying) or just straight up don't have guppies. Apparently they aren't that popular to keep up here, as they were where we are from. D:

[Invisible Snake]

I hear ya, finding feeder guppies here is a mission too. I went on a couple of aquarium/fish forums looking for them and luckily found someone on there in my area that had dozens for sale at a little above the average price. If I were you I would buy a few rosy red minnows just to get the non-feeders to eat at least once or twice and then use the minnows to scent some worms or fresh/frozen fish. Good luck! Oh and btw post pics of the babies please =]

[Light of Dae]

When you feed, do you add a little water in the dish? I find that it helps a huge amount.

I currently do 'container feeding' I place each baby in a plastic sandwich container with water n cut up goodies be it worms n or mice. I find this works awesome and if the snake isn't interested I can gently move the container side to side n make the food n water mix slide back n forth and it works. Plus I can tell exactly how much each snake is eating. :)

It also gets them used to handling n more routine way of doing things, Some of my babies got it figured out already.

[Bear-Cat]

When you feed, do you add a little water in the dish? I find that it helps a huge amount.

I currently do 'container feeding' I place each baby in a plastic sandwich container with water n cut up goodies be it worms n or mice. I find this works awesome and if the snake isn't interested I can gently move the container side to side n make the food n water mix slide back n forth and it works. Plus I can tell exactly how much each snake is eating. :)

It also gets them used to handling n more routine way of doing things, Some of my babies got it figured out already.

I can try that when I go to feed them. Every time I try the container method, they look at me like I'm punishing them, but I didn't think to add water and move it around gently. Thank you! I will report back on how it goes~

[Light of Dae]

They get used to 'punish feedings' lol They learn to eat when they are told! lol

Oh and I ALWAYS add water to any food offered. keeps it moist long enough for them to decide if they want it, easy to swallow, quenches thirst lol seen few of my babies sip the food water :)

[Bear-Cat]

I'm still in the process of feeding everyone, so far, only 3 have eaten.
The snakes that do eat regularly are very aggressive and mean. I try to get them and they continuously attempt to bite me.

[snake man]

I'm still in the process of feeding everyone, so far, only 3 have eaten.
The snakes that do eat regularly are very aggressive and mean. I try to get them and they continuously attempt to bite me.

They will grow fonder of you with time. Hopefully:p.

[Bear-Cat]

Sorry about the delay, I wasn't feeling well the past few days.
We lost all of the snakes that refused to eat so far, and have the feeding snakes alive and kicking. They are a month old today. 6 Babies survived out of 16. There are 2 that refuse worms, and only eat tilapia. I'm in the process of scenting worms so they will eat those. The other four voraciously devour worm chunks like no tomorrow.
How often should I dust their food with the calcium powder and the vitamin powder?
When will I be able to sex them? I know that's not for a little while yet.
I am glad that the ones that are alive are doing better.

[Invisible Snake]

Sorry for the ones that didn't make it and I hope you feel better.

I usually lightly dust my babies food every 3rd or 4th feeding (I only feed them fish). Once they get big enough, usually around 3-4 months old I start feeding them 1 day old whole pinks and discontinue dusting their fish.

Some people pop babies after being only a few days old, as for visually sexing them it is significantly unreliable with babies.

[zirliz]

My one and only baby garter was born in a pet shop and I got her days later she wouldn't eat for ages a month I think I tired everything until one day I decided to try a guppy fry the second she saw it she ate it and shed the next day weirdly enough only this year she is 4 now would she even try to eat an earth worm she mainly takes salmon , moved her to rat pups which she gets monthly, other than that pinkies and salmon, she is so big now, I hope your ones will be ok (the surviving ones)