infected belly button???

[Light of Dae]

My last remaining female Eastern flame/ery het mel/snow was doing great. however today I noticed she seemed slow when I was taking a shed out from one of the zacapu girls. Picked her up and it looks like she still has a pretty full belly(shouldn't be) and she seemed in pain when I touched her belly in spots. Flipping her over I saw that the 'belly button line' seemed drawn in and more like a cut, the scales are also ... deforming... seems like the scales are pulling and growing sideways to the line. Its is really weird. It is lumpy n swollen looking..:(

There is nothing in the tank to cut them I have since now double n triple checked. No one else is injured or seeming in pain. Everyone else has a slim belly and ready to be fed again tomorrow. been three days since last feed. She is the only one with thickness left in her belly... I was going to feed tonight but am now waiting...

Should I feed her? What can I do? What is the cause? has anyone seen this before? :( :confused:

Males in their tank all seem good.

I'll post pictures in a few mins... gotta find the cord.

[guidofatherof5]

Waiting for photos.

[Invisible Snake]

I don't know what may be going on, but if you suspect that something is wrong with your snake you should immediately quarantine that snake.

[Light of Dae]

K So I first noticed she was dull and would be going blue soon, then I noticed this dark spot circled. You can see and I pointed out the lumpy look from the side.
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The cut?
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It is weird how you can see the scales pulled together n twisted in spots.
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[guidofatherof5]

Any chance there is a retained shed?

[Light of Dae]

She hasn't shed yet within my care. She didn't have this last feeding..

[snake man]

Any chance there is a retained shed?
I am willing to bet that might be it

[Light of Dae]

Either way. she will be going to quarantine in a few mins here... warm, humid... Should do her good either way.

[Light of Dae]

K she is in her little tank all alone now... Paper towels n water n fake leafs for hiding.... I'll pick up some antibiotic ointment after work tomorrow as I should have some in the house irregardless. Anything else I should pick up?

Here she has only had worms and the scent of silversides(didn't eat any).

... I'm so lost n worried.. there is no where she could have cut herself... Yet I want to strip the entire female cage to absolute bare minimums just paper towels flat, and few folded for hides, paper rolls, water dish maybe the soft fake fern leafs.

:(

[guidofatherof5]

If it is a retained shed then this crisis could be over once the shed is removed. I say crisis because a retained shed can kill a snake, especially small ones.
After being in a warm moist box for 30 minutes or more see if you can start a shed peeling by starting at the side of her vent.
I pinch and pull on the skin in that area to start a shed. If it is a retained shed it should come off pretty easy in that area.
If you do find a retained shed you can run warm water over the area and shed her backwards or try to start the shed at her head. I grab the corner of the mouth to get it started.
Hope this is all it turns out to be.

[snake man]

Good luck and hopefully she will be fine.

[HazAnga]

It definitely looks and sounds like a retained shed. Like Steve said a warm humid hide for 30 mins or running under warm (not too warm) water and try to help remove the retained shed, not trying to rip it off yourself though.

[kueluck]

Poor lil thing. :( Hope all goes well for her AND you.

[EasternGirl]

I'm thinking retained shed too, Michelle. Do the shed box like Steve suggested. I have used a shed box with troubled sheds. I let the snakes soak in warm water for about 10-20 minutes...and then I start to try to manually remove the shed. I had a shed that was tight and cutting off breathing on Hermes before...because he couldn't get the shed off around his neck. Sometimes..what I call an "emergency shedectomy" is in order. Good luck and keep us posted please.

[Light of Dae]

Ok I'll do the shed box. I offered food yesterday and she normally is the first to latch on to food before I shut the lid... she didn't touch any food. Will let you know how the shed box goes.

[Light of Dae]

:( she doesn't seem good... really slow and indifferent about being held... She is in the shed box, I folded the towel over her and she didn't even move :(

[guidofatherof5]

Have you tried to peel the shed off as I described in an earlier post?

[Light of Dae]

was trying.. I now took the towel out and have her just in water the container is sitting in a sink of warm water to keep her warm. Will be rubbing her down with the towel soon. She doesn't like me touching it.... Looks like she is trying to push the thick belly down. ... I'm about to take more pictures.

[Light of Dae]

Couldn't get anything started... I'm really worried about her :( she is really lazy

[guidofatherof5]

Not sure where to go with help. It doesn't sound good. Please keep us posted.
Prayers headed your way.

[i_heart_sneakie_snakes]

I hope you can get that shed off her. Poor little thing :(

[Light of Dae]

I don't know that it is a shed... It appeared in a matter of three days. had no signs at the last feeding,
Tried m tried to get something started after 30 mins in warm shed box with a towel... didn't work so I left her in the shed box with just warm water in a sink of water that I kept changing to keep it warm... still couldn't get anything started with a towel or my nails... :( Should I try a sharp thin knife or something to try n get the 'belly button line' or 'whatever it is' off?
I'm at a loss here... Her sister arrived dead and now she is bloated/swollen n lazy :( I have the male eastern flame/ery boys but I don't want to lose this girl. :(

[snake man]

I will be hoping for the best, i can't give any advice though sorry :(.

[Light of Dae]

Anyone have any advice if I should use tweezers or scalpel to try n remove the line?

[Invisible Snake]

In my personal opinion I don't think it is a retained shed and if I'm wrong and it turns out to be a retained shed definitely don't use a scalpel.

I hope she gets better.

[Light of Dae]

ok what do you think it is then?

[Invisible Snake]

ok what do you think it is then?

To be honest I have no idea :(

[EasternGirl]

This is very sad and I wish I could do something to help. You do not have access to any vets?

[Light of Dae]

I've searched for a herp vet but haven't found any good recommendations or such yet. I'll be calling around on monday seeing if I can even talk to a herp vet.

[Invisible Snake]

Hey have you tried contacting Scott, he may have a better idea of what's going on with her?

[Light of Dae]

I haven't talk to Scott yet. Will send him a message.

Got some more pictures...
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Chilling in the tub.
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She only moved after I touched her tail.
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[guidofatherof5]

From the top she looks very normal. Do you have a magnifying lens to look at that belly area?
Look for a place to start a shed.
It is strange looking but I'm not seeing the prominent swelling I was expecting to see.
I still think there might be some kind of shed issue here but just don't know.
Best of luck. Keep us posted.

[-MARWOLAETH-]

What species is she?

[Invisible Snake]

What species is she?

She is a T.s.sirtilas, baby female eastern.

[jitami]

Could she be impacted? It does look like there is some swelling visible in the belly pics, which could be pulling and twisting her scales, but I have no clue what could have caused it.

[Light of Dae]

No chance of impaction, they live on paper towels and are fed in separate containers with just the food in water.

[Light of Dae]

From the top she looks very normal. Do you have a magnifying lens to look at that belly area?
Look for a place to start a shed.
It is strange looking but I'm not seeing the prominent swelling I was expecting to see.
I still think there might be some kind of shed issue here but just don't know.
Best of luck. Keep us posted.

She'd look normal from the top if she had just eaten a day ago, yes.
Considering she hasn't eating in a week... I'd consider her really swollen.
Everyone else who ate when she did, was slimmed down by the next feeding, when I noticed this.

Should I use tweezers to try n grab something if I see it? I've tried rubbing her with a wet towel but she is so tiny and I am scared of pushing to hard.... I've tried picking at it with my nails but also seems like it is pushing to hard on her soft tiny belly.

I put her in a warm moist moss hide yesterday morning, it has an opening which she hasn't found yet as she is still in there, she's moved around some... not much. Hoping it will do her belly good. All the good moss properties n what not.

[jitami]

If you see an overall general swelling my next guess would be infection, likely internal rather than external. It's really just a guess, though and at this point I think a vet is your best chance...

[EasternGirl]

I'm saying that a vet is your best chance at finding out what is going on at this point too. I have no idea what is going on there. Wish I could help more...Keep us posted please.

[BUSHSNAKE]

looks like theres a birth defect

[paulh]

I lean towards a birth defect, too. :(

The line in the pictures on the first page is not a belly button line. That would be on 10-20 scales about a half inch forward of the base of the tail.

[EasternGirl]

I was wondering the same thing...but Michelle...did you say that she did not look like this before? Or has she always looked like this?

[BUSHSNAKE]

I was wondering the same thing...but Michelle...did you say that she did not look like this before? Or has she always looked like this?
something like that would be hard to catch when they are so small but becomes apparent as the snake gets a little bigger...ive seen something similar, just not that bad

[Rober10169]

Imperfections of Nature. Being a Doctor of Chiropractic, and a chicken breeder, I have seen lots of imperfections. Most become more apparent as the individual grows. There is nothing that can be done to stop this as it is programmed in the creatures genes. This is one reason why these creatures have so many offspring as many will die due to predators, genetic problems, etc. In nature it is survival of the fittest. Man is the only creature that doesn't follow the laws of nature (but that is a different topic all together).

[Invisible Snake]

That was my initial thought that it was a birth defect but Light of Dae said she appeared swollen and was a bit sluggish.

[Light of Dae]

Well, this morning she pooped perfect lol watched her... I had taken her out of the moist moss hide cause she had not gotten out of it since I put her in there and I figured maybe she couldn't find her way out n wanted a drink of water. She seemed more lively and had a small sip of water, then leaped out of my hand an swim in circles for a minute then stopped n looked at me, flicking her tongue, got out of the water n pooped!

Now after I got home from work I see she knows where the hole is in the moss hide and she just must love it in there. lol right back in it.

As far as it being a birth defect ... I don't know, I didn't see anything when I got her and it was the feeding just before this post that she was fine and ate like a champ. Then BOOM just like that she was slow, lazy and hadn't slimmed down like everyone else.

Seems little better today... going to feed everyone again n see if she'll eat this time, Last time she did not.

[i_heart_sneakie_snakes]

I'm really rooting for her. I hope she eats for you.

[Light of Dae]

She ate!!! As well she shed! Almost perfect, there where two tiny little holes along the line that stayed on her.... I think I got them both off. rubbed her belly with a warm wet towel.

I however ended up destroying the shed when removing it from the plastic plant and lid and hot glue(long cold n solid, its grip-y) but the tail n eye caps n everything else was in good shape.

She seems little more active and alert. I'm sure whatever it is is not contagious... I gave her a roommate after 'supper' the little active... very active melanistic girl. Figure a friend may help her continue to be more alert n hopefully more active. My main reasoning is... she would be in the same spot from when I'd get up in the morning to when I went to bed... un moved, same curl. So here's to hoping the most active girl gets the little flame/ery moving.

Took more pictures, Will upload them after work today.

[ProXimuS]

Yay! Glad to hear this:D I guess the line is still there after the shed?

[guidofatherof5]

Glad to hear she shed.

Keep a close eye on her. Having a retained shed for an extended period of time can cause damage to organs as they basically are starved for oxygen.
This damage is irreversible and in most cases can lead to death.
I'm not saying this is what is occurring with your snake but thought I would bring it up as it pertains to retained sheds.
Keep us posted.

[Invisible Snake]

That's great news! I hope she continues to do better.

[Light of Dae]

Here is the shed, you can see the tiny little holes... It was a complete shed but as I stated I ripped it :P
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The little one after eating...
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Snakey hide n seek? by smell? lol
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Found you!
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1... 2... 3... (etc) 10! Ready or not here I come!!!
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[guidofatherof5]

Thanks for the update. Eating is a good sign.
How much tongue flicking is this little scrub doing?

[Light of Dae]

Some tongue flicking... not as much as I'd like to see... but having a buddy in there helps. I think she sleeps most of the time n thats why she isn't flicking her tongue much...

Thinking if I should just put her back with the girls... right now for heat she just has a 40w light... the girls (boys do now too) now have heat mats....Thinking belly heat may be rather helpful...?

[snake man]

Glad to see the little guy is doing well.

[thamneil]

My one eyed marcianus has the same defect on her ventral scales. Good to see that the little one is doing better.

[EasternGirl]

Glad she ate and shed! My concern wouldn't be so much the weird lines around the belly button...but rather that swelling. That looks abnormal to me. I hope she continues to improve and I would keep a close eye on her pooping and that she doesn't develop swelling around the vent.

[katach]

My first thought while reading this thread was a malformation. I hope she does well for you and I glad to hear she is eating and had a good shed. Definitely keep us posted on her. :)

[Light of Dae]

It might be a birth defect or something... One of my male eastern Flame/ery has a line like it to but not nearly as severe.... He is very active n alert though.
Here are a few pictures of the male. Very hard to get pictures of him as he is VERY VERY active.
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He is a pretty boy, green looking, but getting red. Cannot wait to see his adult color.
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[guidofatherof5]

Strange looking. If he's eating, drinking an pooping I wouldn't worry too much about it.
It will be interesting to see that belly as he matures.

[ProXimuS]

Are these two siblings? I wonder if when they grow more, and gain more weight(sort of stretch out their skin more), if the line will start to go away?

[Light of Dae]

I think I may put the girl n her melanistic friend back in with the main group of girls. It is warmer in that tank since the weather here has dropped in temperature past few days. I'll be feeding again today so right after feeding is done she can go back provided she eats. She should... she past last dinner. and it seems the swelling has gone down she looks way more normal sized now. Will update after feeding.

[thamneil]

Michelle, my Ery/flame from Scott doesn't appear to have any deformed scalation. I can see how the stuck shed would have folded into the crease and appear as is the scales were divided. Doesn't look like much of a problem.

[mikem]

Glad she ate! Thanks for the update and I hope she continues to thrive! :)