Steveo's Garters

[Steveo]

I figured it was time to start my own thread and get everyone in here. Today I put together a quick-and-dirty photo box from a styrofoam shipping container and some paper. It wasn't quite as bright as I expected, but it did the job.

First, the Easterns.

Male: 64186419
He gets more red toward the tail.

Female:6420


Puget Sound Female: 64216422

[Steveo]

Red Plains Female 1: 642364246425

Red Plains Female 2:64266427

[Steveo]

Red Plains Male: 64286429

[guidofatherof5]

Very nice looking T.radix.

[Invisible Snake]

Good looking group. That female eastern is looking hot!

[snake man]

Awsome looking snakes nice snake family you got there.

[ProXimuS]

I agree with InvisibleSnake, and I love those Pugets also. But they are all really pretty:D

[setfree]

Sweet looking group!:D

[EasternGirl]

Beautiful snakes!!!

[Steveo]

Everyone is still doing well after being fed last night. The puget musked before I even picked her up. A few of them do the death roll to try to escape, but I just drop them into my other hand.

I'll be going to west Texas for a few days next month for work, but I hope to find some time to do some herping before I fly back. I'd love to find a male desert king to go with my female and a few blacknecks. I'd only be a 3 hour drive from grey-banded king territory too.

[Steveo]

Two skins appeared the morning after feeding and a third the following morning. They certainly don't slow down on the food intake before a shed.

[Steveo]

The big male radix is becoming a picky eater - he refused pinky parts twice, so the second time I threw in some nightcrawler parts and he immediately went to town on them. Next time I fed everyone nightcrawlers but then the puget sound didn't eat. Yesterday I went back to silversides and everyone turned into little stuffed sausages.

[guidofatherof5]

The big male radix is becoming a picky eater - he refused pinky parts twice, so the second time I threw in some nightcrawler parts and he immediately went to town on them. Next time I fed everyone nightcrawlers but then the puget sound didn't eat. Yesterday I went back to silversides and everyone turned into little stuffed sausages.

Life is good when they are sausages.:D

[ProXimuS]

Glad to hear they're doing well(even if one or two is picky:p). Would love to see some little sausage pics:)

[Steveo]

As requested:

[Steveo]

67296730673167326733

[Steveo]

67346735673667376738

[Steveo]

67396740674167426743

[Steveo]

67446745674667476748

[Steveo]

67496750675167526753

[Steveo]

675467556756

[Steveo]

I don't know if that was enough.

[ProXimuS]

It's never enough....:p


Awesome pics! They're lookin really good:)

[Steveo]

One after-dinner picture of my favorite fatty. For comparison purposes.
6757

[Steveo]

Monsters, all of them.

Steady increases in portion sizes brought me to a dozen pinkies today for 6 snakes. Having tired of chopping them into 8-10 pieces each, I quartered each pinky and gave each snake 8 pieces...30 minutes later not a scrap remained. Eating machines, they are.

[Invisible Snake]

You should buy 1 day old pinkies, my babies from Scott are eating them whole 2-3 per feeding sessions and only a couple refuse to take them without scenting :D

[Steveo]

I do have 1 day pinkies but I prefer to cut them up because I believe they can pack more in that way, i.e. if they don't want 2 they might still eat 1.5.

[Steveo]

Most are eating whole pinkies now. They're all capable, but the pickeringii and one of the radix sometimes refuse unless they smell some blood first. The radix went off food for a week but I think she was just having a difficult shed.

Since I see them every day, I fail to notice how quickly they're growing. Last night I caught one stretched out against the glass so I whipped out my measuring tape and she was about 17". I'm going to have to divide them up soon.

[Lisa4john]

One after-dinner picture of my favorite fatty. For comparison purposes.
6757

Beautiful snake. :)

[ProXimuS]

17 in?! Wow!:eek: My adult ribbon is 21 in...They sure sound like they're getting big!

[Steveo]

Update time. I didn't realize it had been almost two months. Still growing like crazy. Compare these pictures to the ones at the top of page 3. I've also included a shot of a deli cup they were originally shipped in (2 per cup) ~5 month ago for reference. Both of the female radix had to be held, and the first one is starting to show some red. I'm going to need a bigger photo box next time. Everyone was given their first offering of chicken liver immediately after the photo shoot, but the female Eastern was the only one to chow down right away. I think a few more have started on it, but it's been about 30 minutes already.

[Steveo]

74907491749274937494

[guidofatherof5]

Very nice Steveo.

[ProXimuS]

Aww!!! They look like little grown ups:D They've really grown!

[Steveo]

I meant to weigh them before putting them into the food containers, but it was just too much to handle at once. A few ate some of the liver, but I think at least 3 of them didn't touch it. I'll offer some fish tomorrow and then try to mix the liver with some pinkies next time.

Also, that damn pickeringii still musks me every. single. time.

[ConcinusMan]

Hahahha. Even though my pickeringii are WC, (this summer) they're sweet as can be. No musking. Very tame.:D

[Steveo]

Weighed them today. The male Eastern tops the list at 30g, the rest are right around 25g. Got musked again.

[Steveo]

Fed a mix of silversides and chicken liver last night. I only saw the male eastern eat liver. Some of the others may have had a piece but nobody ate it all.

The male eastern is starting to show some more red, I think. Could have been chicken blood. I almost escaped without being musked by the pickeringii but she jumped out of the feeding container before I could get the lid on and we had a 30 second battle.

[Steveo]

Monthly update time. I gave up on the liver because a) it was messy and b) I found a bag of 100 pinkies hiding in the freezer. I knew I hadn't run through them all.

After eating fish and ignoring the liver for a couple weeks, the pickeringii was relucatant to go back to pinkies. I've been giving everyone a couple whole silversides and a couple whole pinkies for each meal, which appeases everyone. The largest garter could probably put down 6 pinkies easily if I let him. Once I run through these pinkies I might order some hairless weanlings or whatever is appropriately sized. Pinkies are high in fat and low in calcium (vs. older mice) so I don't want to be feeding them forever.

I will be leaving Friday to visit family over Christmas and I'll be gone for 10 days. Everyone will get a big meal tomorrow night and another big one when I get back. I have a friend watching the dog and she'll check in on the cat every few days and also make sure the snakes have water. I'll leave a lamp on with a natural light bulb so they don't go into brumation mode. Hopefully.

The male radix is still a cool green color, but the two females are turning red. The male eastern is also showing red. I'm not sure about the female because I'm always looking at the flame part :p

The pickeringii still musks except one time when I caught her sleeping under the cool hide. I'd think she'd be happy to be handled as she is only handled when being fed, but nooooo....

[Steveo]

As I look my garters over before feeding, I'm starting to doubt that I've sexed them all properly. I'm not sure that the big green radix is male or that the eastern showing flame is female. The bigger eastern is surely pushing 40g by now. I'll try to get some new pictures, weigh everyone, and measure them with imageJ within the next week.

They've all definitely become less active when the lights are on. They hide more and I don't see their heads peeking out as much. But when I turn the light on in the morning (or if I forget and have to turn it on when I get home from work), I usually see 2 or 3 just lounging about. Feeding response is still strong, though going 10 days without a meal at the end of December probably had something to do with that.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Nice group!

[Steveo]

Did measurements and a feeding tonight. Even though the ImageJ software measures to the nearest thousandth, all of my lengths surprisingly rounded to common numbers. Weights are to the nearest 2g. Results are as follows (pictures will be posted in the order listed):

"green" red plains: 36g, 25.00"
red plains 1: 40g, 24.25"
eastern visible flame: 32g, 21.67"
red plains 2: 30g, 23.25"
big eastern: 46g, 23.99"
puget sound: 24g, 19.75"

I forgot to attempt to sex them, so I'll do that next time.

79707971797279737974

[Steveo]

7975

Hmm. I thought the software would save the lines I drew. Oh well.

[ConcinusMan]

That first set of photos weren't taken from straight above. That will skew the results a little. As you will notice, the inches seem to get smaller as they progress to the right because the pic was taken at an angle. It's important to use a picture taken from straight above.

[Steveo]

That first set of photos weren't taken from straight above. That will skew the results a little. As you will notice, the inches seem to get smaller as they progress to the right because the pic was taken at an angle. It's important to use a picture taken from straight above.

I know... I was standing on a chair, looking down into the old tank on top of my dresser. I did the measurements more out of curiosity than anything else, as people sometimes ask me how long they are and I never had a good answer. Perhaps when I do it again in a few months I'll move the tank to the floor and get a proper top-down shot. I just wanted some ballpark figures.

[Steveo]

Did measurements and a feeding tonight. Even though the ImageJ software measures to the nearest thousandth, all of my lengths surprisingly rounded to common numbers. Weights are to the nearest 2g. Results are as follows (pictures will be posted in the order listed):

"green" red plains: 36g, 25.00"
red plains 1: 40g, 24.25"
eastern visible flame: 32g, 21.67"
red plains 2: 30g, 23.25"
big eastern: 46g, 23.99"
puget sound: 24g, 19.75"

I forgot to attempt to sex them, so I'll do that next time.




At what size do the males reach sexual maturity? I suppose I should separate them before they start acting up...

[ConcinusMan]

It's not entirely dependent on size. Age is a factor too, independent of size.

[Greg'sGarters]

Beautiful snakes, I will have to start a thread for all my snakes in a little. I will take pictures of them as they come out of brumation.

[Steveo]

Alright, sexing attempts.

"green" red radix. Supposed to be male, looks male. Surprisingly large, bigger than the other two:

79787979

Red radix 1: supposed to be female, looks female:

7980

Red radix 2: supposed to be female but I'm not sure. Might need more pictures:

79817982

[Steveo]

Big eastern. Supposed to be male, looks male, but also surprisingly big:

79837984

Flame eastern. supposed to be female. Not sure:

79857986

pickeringii. supposed to be female. probably female?

7987

[guidofatherof5]

This is for the first set of photos.
1- I think female.
2- Female all the way
3- Male all the way

This is for the second set of photos.
1- female Nice taper.
2- male No taper for at least 6 scales.
3- male Tail widens just after the vent for at least 6 scales.
In my humble opinion.

[Steveo]

Thanks, Steve. Now that I think about it I don't think the radix were marked... I think I just decided the green one was male because it was the smallest at the time. Good to know I still got the 1.2 I wanted. Actually kind of happy now that I have 1.1 turning red already.

The T. s. sirtalis were definitely marked as male and flame female. Just glad the female isn't the runt. Would have liked the one showing flame to be the big one though :p

The pickeringii (was originally a pair) were labeled as male and blue female. The "male" failed to thrive and only survived about 10 days.

Part of the reason I wanted to be sure was that I'm going to split them up soon... and I need to know what I have so I know what to order to round out my breeding plans. Money is a little tight this year with the wedding coming up and I promised I wouldn't get any more snakes until we buy a house so I'm only going to buy two or three this year. :cool: I'll grab one or two blue female pickeringii and an anery red-sided. Everything else will go on the "want" list for 2014. :D

[guidofatherof5]

Woah. My opinion doesn't make it so. Wait to see what others have to say.
Obviously separate those that need to be until you are sure what you have.

[Steveo]

Well yes. But your answers matched my suspicions... it was only when I looked at my own photos that I was fooled again. Other input is welcome and appreciated.

[ConcinusMan]

Woah. My opinion doesn't make it so.

I agree. Last time I checked, your name was "Steve", not "Scott".;)

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Agreed! My only suspicion would be the greenish radix because it's hard to tell on that one.

this is for the first set of photos.
1- i think female.
2- female all the way
3- male all the way

this is for the second set of photos.
1- female nice taper.
2- male no taper for at least 6 scales.
3- male tail widens just after the vent for at least 6 scales.
in my humble opinion.

[Steveo]

After about 10 seconds of consideration, I think I need to get a male ery albino and some female hets so I can call them "Bennie and the Hets".

[guidofatherof5]

Agreed! My only suspicion would be the greenish radix because it's hard to tell on that one.

I'm with you Shawn. That was the only one I question.

[Steveo]

Agreed! My only suspicion would be the greenish radix because it's hard to tell on that one.

I can try to get some more pictures... I thought I had some good ones but they were out of focus.

[ConcinusMan]

Hey, speaking of green, I've had very green radixes before. They were great but unfortunately, they didn't stay that way. They ended up being just very dark radixes when they fully matured. disappointed me.




pickeringii. supposed to be female. probably female?

7987

Who told you that? That's definitely a male. It's obvious because he's "well hung" if you know what I mean.

[Steveo]

Who told you that? That's definitely a male. It's obvious because he's "well hung" if you know what I mean.

Chip off the ol' block, 'e is!

All of these are from Scott. I wanted a blue pair but he said he only had a blue female and a nonblue male. The nonblue one didn't make it, so I assumed the remaining one was the female. Kinda disappointed in that I was looking forward to buying a male this year and being ready to go next year.

Having interacted with them for most of a year now, my gut feeling on the sexes seems to be more accurate then when I look at the vents. I had a feeling the pickeringii was male because it's the smallest of the whole group and rather slender too. Same with having the easterns reversed, the big one is almost as girthy as my thumb.

[Steveo]

I think the greenish radix is male despite the large size. Not much of a taper after the vent. The other two radix are continuing to turn red and one of them has taken to biting whenever my hand is near; last night it got the rear teeth caught on my finger tip, but couldn't break the skin. I just pinched the corners of the mouth slightly with my free hand and wiggled the little monster loose.

I have only found two skins this month so I'm betting the other 4 will shed this week. The pickeringii didn't musk last night and didn't struggle much either... I think I caught it sleeping. I never find it under the heat bulb but that might just be because it comes from a cooler climate.

[Steveo]

I got clearance from the better half to get another pickeringii to complete the pair. One day when we own a house I can have a dedicated herp/falcon room and won't have to ask :rolleyes:

[guidofatherof5]

I got clearance from the better half to get another pickeringii to complete the pair. One day when we own a house I can have a dedicated herp/falcon room and won't have to ask :rolleyes:

Now that's funny.:D

[Steveo]

Now that's funny.:D

Heh. She was really mad last year. Somehow she thought I had only ordered a pair and then 8 showed up.

[guidofatherof5]

Heh. She was really mad last year. Somehow she thought I had only ordered a pair and then 8 showed up.

I wonder who gave her the idea only a pair was coming.:rolleyes:

[Steveo]

It was the cat. That damn kitty is the root of all of my problems.

[ConcinusMan]

I was going to say something along the lines of another word for "cat" being at the root of your problems but I'll restrain myself. A little. Maybe. :p

[Steveo]

The cat has grown more bold; she's gone from harmlessly pouncing at the milk snakes (near floor level) to climbing on top of the rack, jumping to the dresser, then jumping on top of the garter tanks. I'm not really interested in finding out how long it takes a 10lb. cat to break a screen cover, so something will have to be done about that. Maybe a taser.

The garters are still going strong. Between the six of them they crushed about 1/4 of a package of silversides last night. The growth of the males has dropped off dramatically, but they still eat as much as they can fit. The red radix female has taken to striking in the last few weeks. She's always been kind of defensive, but I guess with size comes confidence. I might start slipping a sock over my hand when I pick her up just to make it an easier and quicker transition to the feeding container - I don't want her thinking she'll be rewarded for biting down on me. Then again, I don't think they've associated being picked up with being fed yet because none of them really seem happy about it. They do seem interested in me when I look through the glass but once I stand on the chair to get into the tank, all bets are off.

I want to do another set of pictures but I need to make a new light box first. I have an old styrofoam cooler that I could use but I don't think I have adequate lighting for a space that big.

[guidofatherof5]

Yes, a taser will do well.:D

[ConcinusMan]

I prefer to use a cattle prod on cats so I can watch them hit the ceiling. Flame throwers are also quite effective. http://emoticonhq.com/images/ICQ/ICQ6.0/devil.gif

Of course, I'm only fantasizing.. err.. I mean, kidding.

[Steveo]

Time for an update, but no pictures because my camera broke last weekend. I'm going to get an estimate this week but it's likely I'll start saving up for a D7000.

The cat has learned that dead mice are yummy, so now I have to thaw everything in the closet with the door closed.

There's really not much to report. I am seeing more activity as the days grow longer. The males have drastically reduced growth rates. Females are still growing and I'm almost positive the green radix is female now. I have not weighed them in some time but I'd estimate the big female eastern around 70-80g. She's as big/bigger than either milk snake, which were born the previous year. :eek:

I've cut meals back to about once per week, and it's almost entirely a diet of silversides for now. They don't seem to mind. I'm considering breeding my own mice to save some money. If I fed mice to all snakes at every meal, then factor in the dog and cat food, the pet food would cost more than the people food ;)

[rickymar81]

Very nice looking snakes. But I have to say I really like your plains. Those are by far my favorite :D

[Steveo]

Thanks!

I'm only getting one more garter this year, but I'm starting to get excited. I think I placed my order for 2012 in 2011, so I knew I had half a year to wait... not so this time :cool:

Still not sure what I'm going to do about the camera, but it's not going to stop me from getting out and herping this weekend. It's raining a little, which is like seeing a unicorn out here... but from Thursday on we should be warm and sunny.

[Steveo]

Weighed the eastern female last night before feeding and she came in at 72g. She'll need to be about twice that prior to breeding, yes?

[guidofatherof5]

I would concur, that being a minimum.

[Invisible Snake]

Weighed the eastern female last night before feeding and she came in at 72g. She'll need to be about twice that prior to breeding, yes?

How long is she? (My scale isn't working so I'm trying to roughly guess the weight of my girls)

[Steveo]

She was ~24" at 42g. I'd guess she's close to 30" now. I think most of the weight she's gained since then has gone straight to her hips :P She's about as thick as my thumb now.

[Steveo]

Decided to re-review the Colorado regulations before doing some herping this weekend and finally decided to send Parks and Wildlife an email. The regulations used to say that native species (or their progeny) could not be sold, bartered, etc. but some (including T. radix and T. sirtalis sirtalis) could be given as a gift. The latest revision removes the gift policy, so under the regulations I have 5 snakes that I can't sell, trade, give away, or release. (I can't release them because they have "been in contact with snakes from other geographic regions".)

I asked for clarification on importation of native species, because that topic is not addressed. I'm positive that they don't like it because of the possibility of escape, disease transmission, reproduction. and the like... but nothing says it's not allowed. There are take and possession limits (4 per species per year/12 herps in aggregate, including CB offspring), but my garters technically exist outside of this provision. I need to know if the same provisions will be applied to my imported snakes or if they are an exception.

My primary concern is that if I start breeding next year, I literally would not be able to give the scrubs away if the existing provisions are applied to my snakes. I might be in violation just by having a litter that pushes me over 12 snakes. So as much as I'd like to do selective breeding, if my only method of culling is euthanization, I'm not going to go that route. I would have to keep them and find some non-native species to breed (not that picking out some new ones would be hard :P).

[guidofatherof5]

Interesting situation. Keep us posted.

[Steveo]

I recieved a brief reply today, basically copy/pasting the "4 per species per year / 12 in possession in aggregate" part of the regulations. Said nothing pertaining to importing. I've replied asking how the limit of 12 would apply to captive breeding... I could theoretically exceed that limit just by picking up a gravid female... the Wandering female I picked up last year had something in the teens, but all but 4 were stillborn.

It appears that these native garter species are exempt from the "no gift" rule, so I do at least have that outlet.

The wording of the email also made me question whether the aggregate is 12 total across all native species, or 12 per species. My interpretation was the former, but now I'm not sure. If it's 12 per species, I could manage a breeding program as long as I can find homes for enough scrubs to stay under the limit. I have a feeling I could find enough homes for them out of state :P

I get the feeling that the guy answering the questions isn't as familiar with the regulations as I am. Between my interests in falconry and herps, I've gone over most of the chapters at least a dozen times.

[Steveo]

Some new pictures with a cheap point-and-shoot I picked up:

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[Steveo]

85708571857285738574

[Steveo]

85758576857785788579

[guidofatherof5]

Cheap camera still = beautiful snakes.

[Steveo]

No reply from Parks and Wildlife yet. In the meantime, I've started to strip down the guppy tank. My original plan was to sell it and see if I could break even on it, but now I'm thinking it could be a garter tank. It's a 30 gallon hex on a nice stand and since I'm only getting one scrub this year, I'm thinking she can go in there so she doesn't get trampled.

[Jeff B]

Looks like that Puget has some good blue color, nice one

[ConcinusMan]

I'm thinking she can go in there so she doesn't get trampled.

Ya know something, I'm not so sure there's a significant risk of that, not that it couldn't happen. I have a very young (still baby-sized really) garter in with several others including a couple that are 24-26 inch adults and baby doesn't seem to get pushed around or laid on/trampled. Even the full weight of a 3 ft female on top isn't very likely to hurt him. Now, if I was using a liner or other object the baby could get pinned under, that's different. If one of the big guys tries to lay on the baby he just moves out of the way or wiggles free and there's plenty of room for all of them.

[Steveo]

Given the layer of carefresh, you're probably right, but having her in her own space will make things easier for me. The yearlings are eating every 5-7 days and I don't want to disturb them every 2-3 days to fish out the new one for a meal. I try to disturb them as little as possible, especially since one of them has become a bit bitey.

[Steveo]

Looks like that Puget has some good blue color, nice one

Thanks, Jeff! I'm hoping the girl I get for him this year is just as nice.

[ConcinusMan]

Some new pictures with a cheap point-and-shoot I picked up:

8565856685678568

I have found that a white background causes problems sometimes. Because of all that light being reflected directly at the camera, it tends to automatically shorten the exposure, making your subject too dark. Similar to the effect you get when you try to take a picture indoors of someone standing in front of a window. It's like having your light source behind the subject instead of behind the camera or above as it should be.

[Steveo]

Yep, they were much darker than the pictures taken with the DSLR, especially around the edges. The metering on pocket cameras just isn't up to snuff. Depth of field was good though... I don't have anything resembling a macro lens for my DSLR so that was actually an improvement. I could have done some exposure correction but I was lazy that night.

I have a refurbished DSLR in the mail so at some point I'm going to set up the tripod and get some well-exposed, crisp shots. I just need to get the camera out of my shaky hands and/or improve the lighting.

[ConcinusMan]

My Nikon does an excellent job on the metering but like you were saying, in low light you need a tripod but even then, getting a snake to sit completely still for the shot is about impossible. Definitely helps to shoot outdoors where there's plenty of bright natural daylight. I think your "cheap point and shoot" did OK but the white reflecting hurt those shots. Snakes are rather dark. I think in this situation a blue towel for a background works better.

[Steveo]

I found the puget sound garter dead this morning. I think he ate himself to death because he was still plump with silversides. I need to pay more attention to the portions I provide.

[ConcinusMan]

:(

[guidofatherof5]

Sorry for your loss. The over-eating of fish in particular is dangerous to a few snakes. I've never lost a snake to over-eating worms but fish is a different story.

[ConcinusMan]

I've had it happen too. In fact, any time I've had a snake die with a full belly it was a large meal of fish. You have to consider that snakes can't burp and if they really need to, they must regurgitate. Fins on a whole fish swallowed head first might make that impossible.

[indigoman]

He was a beautiful snake, real sorry to read this.

[Invisible Snake]

Damn, sorry for your loss.

[Steveo]

Well, it kinda makes me feel better that I'm not alone.

My dilemma now is that I have a blue girl on order with Scott. My other half is adamant about only getting one more, so I may need some stud services in a couple years.

[Invisible Snake]

My dilemma now is that I have a blue girl on order with Scott. My other half is adamant about only getting one more, so I may need some stud services in a couple years.

Is your other half knowledgeable on garters? I ask because as a kid when I kept garters I was told not to get anymore garters but I did anyway and just told my mom that my 1 garter snake had babies lol :D

[guidofatherof5]

Now that is funny.:D

[Steveo]

Is your other half knowledgeable on garters? I ask because as a kid when I kept garters I was told not to get anymore garters but I did anyway and just told my mom that my 1 garter snake had babies lol :D

Eh, she knows enough... enough to be mad when I'm saying I'm only getting one and then two littleuns show up. :rolleyes:

We're working on buying a house within the next year (I feel like a broken record saying that), at which point I'll have a "hobby room" all to myself.

[Steveo]

I mean, it was hard enough to convince her that I didn't order the T. e. scotti that Scott sent with last year's order... but then I dropped it and it disappeared so it became moot anyway.

[Steveo]

Time for an update but nothing exciting to report. The male eastern is opaque and didn't eat tonight. The female eastern is up to 88g and gulped down a whole rat pinky.

[guidofatherof5]

No bad news is always a good update.;)

[Steveo]

The male eastern didn't eat again last night. I think he's only eaten once in the last month, which is about when I switched them all to rat pinky parts. I'll have to pick up some silversides this week and do some scenting.

[Steveo]

Weighed and fed tonight. Females got a pinky rat each, males got pinky rat parts with some silverside chunks for scent.

Females:
96g
76g
66g

Males:
40g
36g

[Steveo]

I've added a female pickeringii to the menagerie. She was a bit reluctant to feed, but tonight she finally ate some silverside slivers in her water dish.

The others are doing well. The male eastern is eating again, he just needed some fish scent to get going.

The green radix girl really likes biting. She'll seek out my fingers when my hand is in the tank.

[guidofatherof5]

I've added a female pickeringii to the menagerie. She was a bit reluctant to feed, but tonight she finally ate some silverside slivers in her water dish.

The others are doing well. The male eastern is eating again, he just needed some fish scent to get going.

The green radix girl really likes biting. She'll seek out my fingers when my hand is in the tank.

A biting radix, interesting. How about a few photos of that green radix, please.

[Steveo]

A biting radix, interesting. How about a few photos of that green radix, please.

It was late when I posted that and I was mistaken - it's the red female that likes the taste of my hands (I think I mentioned her trying to swallow my finger a few months ago) - but I can get a new picture of the green girl later this week.

[guidofatherof5]

Sounds good.

[Steveo]

9299

[Steveo]

It has been quite some time since I've updated here. The female puget sound garter (which was grey, though I ordered a blue one) passed away suddenly. All 3 of the pickeringii I have purchased have died before reaching one year of age; one failed to thrive from the start, one ate itself to death (i think) and this one is a mystery.

This past week the male eastern started showing symptoms of severe neurological problems - he would have episodes where he appeared to cramp up and violently turn to his right for about 2 minutes. The episodes became more and more frequent until he passed away yesterday (I was planning to euthanize him soon but it killed him in just a few days). His former tankmate seems to be fine so I'm hoping it's genetic rather than infectious. Still, I have now lost some or all of 2 of the 3 pairs I was hoping to breed. I am still planning to put the two red radix together in a few months. The female eastern, largest of the bunch at 128g, will be in a holding pattern for now. I'd consider finding a flame stud for her but I don't know how likely that is. The green radix female will also not be bred for the time being... I know she's from red lineage but I want to see if I can find a green male to pair her with, just to see what happens. None of the local wild radix are green.

I feel like I'm at an impasse here because the wife is adamant on not getting any more snakes. State law says I can't sell any native species, so my breeding program is kind of impractical without the pickeringii. My options with the easterns and radix are to keep, give away, or euthanize offspring. I would obviously keep a few but I don't have the resources to keep entire litters every year and I don't know that I can find homes for them all. I might just sit tight with what I have and pursue other ventures... I want to get into falconry and I'm considering starting a brewery within the next year. I'll cool everyone for the winter and think it over, I guess.

[guidofatherof5]

Sorry to hear about your losses. Not breeding will certainly take away any future problems/decisions with offspring.

[ConcinusMan]

A biting radix, interesting. How about a few photos of that green radix, please.

Whenever I have to disturb that little red girl you sent, she does a viper impression and strikes at me repeatedly. But that's about as violent as it gets with any radix I've ever had. It's just a show. Even the most tame garter will try to swallow your finger if it smells like food.