Hi All - Long time no See - Quick guidance, please....

[jitami]

Hi! Let's skip the I told you so's from 4 years ago, k? :p Sigh. So... I've had an older male housed with an older female for four or five years now... based on the sub-forum this is in you can guess what happened. After all this time I just walked in to see blood spots in their tank... yep... right now I've got 8 little squiggles on damp paper towel with a shallow water dish... do they need heat? It's warm here, but I haven't temp checked their new tank (I'd guess 80). Had to do some serious scrambling to get them into my one spare tank, move daddy into a tank with two males he's never been housed with (they're doing the mating ball thing to him - I'd feel sorry for him, but he seems to have recently had a snack :( and he's dealing with the mating attempts fine so that's his new home). Then go through every ounce of carefresh & move mom onto paper towels. Really hope I didn't traumatize her too much, because I have a feeling she's not done. Thankfully the tanks are in a busy part of the house, so I noticed fairly quickly. I even helped one little guy out of his sack. I thought he was dead when I found him, but he seems fine now. I know there's no hurry to feed them... and I'll be reading this forum all night lol, but is there anything I need to worry about with them or mom (or dad for that matter) now?

Thanks thanks thanks <3 Whew... my adrenaline is still flowing!

[jitami]

Btw, Ella (mom) is a huge girl and every summer after their appetite picks up I look at her and think 'she better not be pregnant'... said it a couple of weeks ago... so yes, she did look gravid, but she's such a big girl that it wasn't anything too obvious.

[jitami]

Sorry, another quick Q - how long do I leave the paper towel damp? They do have a large, but shallow water dish.

[snake man]

Keep it damp for a week or more. Congratz on the babies pics?

[jitami]

Thanks snake man... so no worries about it being too cold because it's damp? I will try to get pics. I'm not sure my camera will focus on them being so tiny. I'll give it a try in full sunlight tomorrow. One of the little darlings just slithered out of the last bit of shed in front of me... cute cute cute.

[guidofatherof5]

I use damp paper towels until their birth shed is complete.
Then I make sure they have access to plenty of water to keep them hydrated.

[Invisible Snake]

Welcome back! I was wondering where the old school members went. What type of garters are they?

[jitami]

Any heat source, Steve? If I offer them damp & dry will they use them appropriately or is there still too much risk of dehydration. Most seem to have shed completely already.

[jitami]

Welcome back! I was wondering where the old school members went. What type of garters are they?

e. elegans... sorry I haven't been around... just got busy with dogs, kids, life, but I have missed everyone here!

[guidofatherof5]

e. elegans... sorry I haven't been around... just got busy with dogs, kids, life, but I have missed everyone here!

We have missed you also.

Sounds like your male has been hanging with his lady too long.:D

[jitami]

We have missed you also.

Sounds like your male has been hanging with his lady too long.:D

Yeah, apparently... I really thought we were free and clear... was kind of prepared for it the first year, just in case, but really wasn't expecting anything at this point! Geez. Now those two males he's in with better have been sexed properly... feeling a wee bit paranoid at the moment! lol

[guidofatherof5]

Who's pursuing who?

[jitami]

The previous inhabitants, Frick & Frack (both sexed male), are ganging up on Sly (and yes, I'm sure he's not the one having babies lol).

[jitami]

Should say visually sexed male... none of the 4 have been probed, but Frick and Frack have also been housed together since babies in 2008ish, were repeatedly visually sexed for the first couple of years, and have yet to reproduce. Pretty sure we're safe... but they are convinced that Sly is the new girl in town.

[guidofatherof5]

Give him a bath with a couple drops of liquid dish soap. Wipe him down a couple times. I had the same thing happen with my male T.radix (Cherry-on-top)
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/general-talk/10732-dude-smells-like-lady.html

[jitami]

LOL Will do, Steve... I am starting to feel sorry for him now... On a brighter note, make that 9 little squiggles!

[jitami]

Should I have moist substrate in mom's tank, too? Especially if I head to bed? The most recent little one looks to have shed, was bright and completely dry. Quickly moved him in with the other babies, but he seemed to be in really good shape.

[jitami]

And there's no way it was hiding anywhere in the tank other than inside mom, so she's obviously not done... which honestly scares me. She really is a big girl.

[guidofatherof5]

I think normal is all the mom needs other than extra food at feed time.

[jitami]

I meant should I have the substrate moist in mom's tank for any babies that are born overnight and that I may not see until morning? Sorry, not thinking or typing very clearly tonight...

[jitami]

Btw, thank you so so so much for being up and on the computer, Steve! If I could reach through and hug you I would!

[guidofatherof5]

That is a good idea. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[jitami]

No problem at all... I'm sure I'm not making much sense. I still feel like the adrenaline is running just as high as it was when I first saw 'blood' in the tank. I'll mist it really well and do a last search for babies before heading to bed... somehow I don't think I'll be sleeping much, though :)

[guidofatherof5]

Go to sleep and let nature and mom do their work.

[jitami]

Sounds like a great plan :) Hope it's possible :) Have a good night, Steve.

[jitami]

Was half expecting to see a tank full of babies when I came down this morning, but I'm somewhat thankful that's not the case. No new little ones at all. I went through Ella's tank with a fine toothed comb and found the sack from the 9th baby last night & one more unfertilized egg (there was one yesterday, too). I do see one little area of swelling I'm a tad worried about, but didn't want to disturb her too much. I did put her back on dry paper towel. All of the little ones are bright eyed & active this morning :)

[guidofatherof5]

Glad things went well. Hope you got some sleep.

[ProXimuS]

Congrats on the "surprises":) Can't wait to see pics! I hadn't heard of a Mountain garter till now:D

[jitami]

Thanks Emily! I really will try to get pics of the babies, but there are pics of mom & dad, here: http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/general-talk/4091-tamis-kids.html Sly also represents T. e. elegans in Udo's garter snake poster :)

[ProXimuS]

I actually saw your guys in that post earlier. Very, very pretty!

So, does that make Sly the "poster child" for his ssp:p

[jitami]

LOL At least in that one poster it does :)

[jitami]

As promised, baby pics :)

The best my camera will do with these tiny little guys & indoor lighting:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/jitami/Surprise/DSC06283.jpg

A bit better in natural sunlight:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/jitami/Surprise/DSC06285.jpg

Wish I wouldn't have created a shadow with my camera, but best little face shot for now:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/jitami/Surprise/DSC06290.jpg

[Eight]

They look fantastic. Congratulations. I think I would of just sat in front of her enclosure with a kettle and a huge bag of popcorn :)

[guidofatherof5]

Sweet.
That is a wide dorsal.:eek::D

[ProXimuS]

Aww! I really love that last pic:D

Thanks for sharing!

[jitami]

Thanks guys. They really are sweet <3 Steve, these guys do tend to have wide dorsals, but mom's is even more wide than most I think. Once they eat they'll have some speckling along their sides which detracts from it a bit, but they really are fairly wide.

[Stefan-A]

Neat.

[Invisible Snake]

Congrats on the litter!

[BUSHSNAKE]

those are stunning

[jitami]

Neat.

Neat, Stefan? I've missed your wit :)

Thanks Invisible & Bushsnake :)

[Stefan-A]

Neat, Stefan? I've missed your wit :)

So have I.

[jitami]

Well what on earth have you done with it? How's school? Guessing you're probably finished or getting very close by now?

And to keep this somewhat on topic. I offered the scrubs some chopped up bits of pinky, but they're not ready yet. I didn't think they would be and will have to get some worm & fish, but figured I'd give it a shot while I was thawing out a fuzzy for mom. She didn't eat either, but I left it with her for a bit, so we'll see.

[Stefan-A]

Well what on earth have you done with it?
I sold it and all I got was this stupid user title.


How's school? Guessing you're probably finished or getting very close by now?
It's been over for a while now.

[jitami]

I sold it and all I got was this stupid user title.

haha... well, someone had to do it, I guess :)



It's been over for a while now.

Yeah, I kind of figured... so whatcha up to now?

[Stefan-A]

haha... well, someone had to do it, I guess :)
That's what I've been telling myself for about 4 years. With all the old moderators gone and an absentee admin in charge, I suppose someone had to.


Yeah, I kind of figured... so whatcha up to now?
Nothing to write home about.

[EasternGirl]

Congrats on the babies! I had a situation in April in which my big eastern girl Cee Cee gave birth after being housed with Seeley for many months....during the time they were together, I thought Seeley was a female...until I found them mating one day! Lol. Cee Cee now has a female roomie, thanks to Steve! And she had a litter of 40...but only 3 babies survived. If you still see the lump...keep an eye on it. Lumps near Cee Cee's vent were the way I could tell that she was not done delivering...and it took her a couple of weeks to deliver the entire litter. You could still get a surprise. Sounds like you are doing well with the little ones...I wouldn't think they would need any added heat this time of year. Just a nice shallow water dish...and you may want to put some moist moss in for them...my babies love it!

[jitami]

Thanks Marnie. I don't readily see the lump any longer, but I wouldn't be surprised if she's going to take her time since I interrupted her so unceremoniously... poor girl. Hope that's not the case, though.