The Confusion Continues (ID thread)

[Ameivaboy]

Ok, so I know some members have thought this animal to be a valley garter but after reviewing many pictures (internet,field guides etc etc)
I'm still a bit confused as to the identity of this snake

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h8/Ameivaboy/DSC00727.jpg

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h8/Ameivaboy/DSC00718.jpg

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h8/Ameivaboy/DSC00011.jpg

Now I can see similarities between 3 species (subspecies)
Concinnus,Pickeringii, and fitchi

since i can only post 4 pictures per post let me post again with more : ^ )

[Ameivaboy]

now if you looks at the way the red an black go on the pattern compare that to an oregon red spot

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h8/Ameivaboy/DSC00695.jpg


versus a valley

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/201/535492098_bc5b682bc1_o.jpg


even though this valley doent have the red cheeck my animal does have the red check as is seen in many valleys

[Ameivaboy]

now look at the blueish tinti of the animal and side stripes,

similiar to pickeringii yes???


http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h8/Ameivaboy/draceanamale1.jpg




so i know all 3 ranges meet so could it be a mix of all 3?? is it just one??
what are your thoughts???

[Ameivaboy]

here's one more shot of the animal in questions side showing colors etc
(just like many pugets the color is quite hard to capture)


http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h8/Ameivaboy/DSC00012.jpg

[Thamnophis]

This is a difficult snake to identify.
Could be an interbreed.
Do you know the location where it came from?

[Ameivaboy]

all i know is northern oregon
my origional thought was concinnus x puget

[Chad Lane]

even though this valley doent have the red cheeck my animal does have the red check as is seen in many valleys

Most Valley Gaters don't have Red Checks, according to my findings. If they do, you might want to tell the over 100 snakes I've found they are not wearing there colors :) hehe

Good looking snake none the less, and what ever it is haha

Cheers,
Chad

[Thamnophis]

all i know is northern oregon
my origional thought was concinnus x puget

Could be possible.
My guess is you will never know for sure. :(

[ssssnakeluvr]

I still say valley garter, fitchi...I have fitchi with spots like your red spot....
http://www.donsgartersnakes.net/pictures/slide163.jpg

this link should work, goes to my valley garter pic...it was mislabeled by my friend that does the site, says from Idaho, but is actually from Utah...

[Chad Lane]

That snake you posted is not a Valley Garter fitchi. Looks nothing like it. Had pattern is way off. Looks more like a Red Sided....


Cheers,
Chad

[Ameivaboy]

I would love if someone had pictures of a fitchi from northern oregon, that might shine some light on the subject

[chris87]

anyway thay r very nice snakes mate

[ssssnakeluvr]

Chad..the snake I posted is a valley garter....no red sided, t s parietalis, in Idaho or Utah!!! I stick by my id....I have caught numerous valley garters in Idaho...99% have the red cheek.....where do you live?:????

[adamanteus]

Chad, if you take a look at the comparative distribution ranges of the two sub-species I think you will see that Don is right. His snake is indeed a T. s. fitchi.
snakefinder (http://www.gartersnake.de/snakefinder/snakefinder.html)

[KITKAT]

Yes...

Looks just like my male pickeringii...

What is the scale count?


now look at the blueish tinti of the animal and side stripes,

similiar to pickeringii yes???


http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h8/Ameivaboy/draceanamale1.jpg




so i know all 3 ranges meet so could it be a mix of all 3?? is it just one??
what are your thoughts???

[Tori]

I am reasonably sure that that is a california redsided garter ( Thamnophis sirtalis infernalis ). The Marin County variety is the kind that I have. My female is from Scott Felzer and the male was someone's pet until he got tired of it. This is the male.
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t201/DragonDreams_album/Snakes/CRS2.jpg


Tori

[chris87]

i also think it looks like a red sided

[Ameivaboy]

tori most of my field time is spent in marin county and i have never seen an infernalis that looks like that, and regardless there is no way that it is a red sided just by locality alone

[Ameivaboy]

it Kat that picture is a pickeringii, it was a comparison picture

[Stefan-A]

Looks like a fairly typical infernalis to me?

[Thamnophis]

On this link you can find a few pictures of fitchii on my site.

Thamnophis - Foto's (http://www.kousebandslangen.nl/sirtalis-foto%27s_fitchi.htm)

[Stefan-A]

I don't think we're talking about the same picture here. :D Just occurred to me, my mistake.

[Thamnophis]

I don't think we're talking about the same picture here. :D

I was a kind of sleepy, I think. :p

I have the nightshift. :cool:


I have changed it. :D

[ssssnakeluvr]

that last pic is a California red sider..t s infernalis They are nice looking snakes...hope to get me some soon!!!!! :D

[Stefan-A]

Hope to get me some of any species. ;) Doesn't have to be soon either, I'm a patient man (to a fault).

I'm a whiny little ****, I know. :D

[GarterGuy]

Well have to say that I'm with Don on the T.s.fitchi ID. There was another memeber on the forum who had a fitchi that looked very much like what you've got there. Also one thing to remember here is that T.s.fitchi can show a great deal of variation over it's range...which is quite large! Heck, look at the variation found in T.s.sirtalis. The over all design of the snake is that of a T.s.fitchi...just the fact that it has a bit more red and a bit more blueishness to it doesn't change what it is....just makes it a very nice example of the subspecies. I think if you focus on the over all picture of the animal and not all the specific details you'll see how much it IS similar to other examples of T.s.fitchi. But hey.....what do I know!:rolleyes:

Roy