Puget babies

[ssssnakeluvr]

I had puget babies last night... check out the link for videos.

Don's Garter Snakes | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Dons-Garter-Snakes/122158967822418#!/pages/Dons-Garter-Snakes/122158967822418)

Mom is a red spotted phase, 2 babies have faint orange spots, 1 has yellow spots (keeper), and most of the rest are jet black with clean stripes. they will be available after they start feeding.

[mikem]

Congrats! :cool:

[ssssnakeluvr]

here's pics of babies.....

spotted baby, can see odd speckling on this one

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/ssssnakeluvr/DSCF2016-1.jpg

nice jet black baby, with clean stripes.... sweet!

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/ssssnakeluvr/DSCF2009-1.jpg

and my holdback yellow spot girl

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/ssssnakeluvr/DSCF2022.jpg

[setfree]

Awsome looking scrubs!:D:eek: I like the video you posted of those 2 being born.

They make those photos look stunning!;)

[katach]

Congrats Don! I love Pugets!

[lauwersp]

Really nice!

[Invisible Snake]

Congrats!

[ConcinusMan]

Nice! I knew she'd have babies soon. Looks like you got a variety. Same sort of variety I see where your trio was caught. I have several big females of the black with yellow stripes variety, all fat sausages expecting babies soon. There's something about the simplicity of the bright yellow crisp clean stripes on black that I find appealing.

For some reason they're not selling at all. (well, Mikem got a few) I don't get it. They're awesome snakes. Perhaps too many people have a prejudice against WC snakes. There's a lot of erroneous reasons I get from people that think they're somehow inferior or unsuited for captivity. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

[Invisible Snake]

For some reason they're not selling at all. (well, Mikem got a few) I don't get it. My guess would be that when it comes to Pugets most people only want the blue phase, I know I do.

[ConcinusMan]

I hear that. However, I am not charging blue prices, and these are large healthy young adults. Also, they're awesome snakes, blue or not. They look great as you can see. Since they're not blue would it help if I didn't call them pugets? (rhetorical, sarcasm) I'm still not good at all at figuring the market. It makes no sense to me. Last year I couldn't sell a blue concinnus for half what I charge now. This year I can't keep up with demand, and that's charging twice what I offered them up for last year.

You saw the pic and heard what Don said. "nice jet black baby, with clean stripes.... sweet!" And they are sweet. I have really big adult females like that. They eat carefully from your fingers, like to be held... the list goes on. Awesome snakes. Unfortunately I'm going to end up releasing some of the best ones I have. I'll keep some of course for myself but I can't keep them all. Summer with be over soon and I'll be heading back to CA.

[Dan72]

Nice, looking good.

[ssssnakeluvr]

The mother is an awesome snake!! she was trying to crawl up to me while giving birth! she is so calm and friendly.... she was pretty hungry today too.

[Steveo]

My guess would be that when it comes to Pugets most people only want the blue phase, I know I do.

I think part of the problem is that we don't have a morphological primer for Pugets. Obviously people want the blues, but do blue parents make more blue snakes? Can non-blue parents make blue snakes? I'll take some non-blues if I can at least get some blues from them in the future but I have no idea if it works like that.

In my particular case, I just bought a 2012 blue female. I feel like it would be a waste of her potential if I didn't pair her up with a blue male.

[BUSHSNAKE]

i havent seen much interest in mixing color varients with this species..

[ProXimuS]

Good looking little ones:D

[ConcinusMan]

i havent seen much interest in mixing color varients with this species..

And it's apparent to me, since I find color (and pattern) variation at the same locations when I'm out herping for them, and from the results of this litter, that they do mix it up in the wild. We now know for sure that the black w/ yellow striped version can come from a red spotted phase, and probably visa-versa.

[ConcinusMan]

Obviously people want the blues, but do blue parents make more blue snakes?

Yes


Can non-blue parents make blue snakes?

I doubt it. That would be like me taking two normal concinnus' from the area where I find blue ones, breeding them, and expecting blues to come out. Concinnus' and pickeringi are not that far apart genetically or geographically. It doesn't surprise me that they both have a blue phase and I'm pretty sure that producing blues, requires blue parents.

[Steveo]

Yes



I doubt it. That would be like me taking two normal concinnus' from the area where I find blue ones, breeding them, and expecting blues to come out. Concinnus' and pickeringi are not that far apart genetically or geographically. It doesn't surprise me that they both have a blue phase and I'm pretty sure that producing blues, requires blue parents.

Now I'm kind of interested in getting a group together to test things out.

Pickeringii come in blue, yellow, and green, correct? Since green is yellow+blue, it could be possible to get all three colors from green parents (provided that blue and yellow are produced independently).

Let me give an example from my experience with Betta splendens:

Royal blue bettas are het for two codominant color genes... let's call them H/h. Royal blues are Hh. HH produces a steel blue type color. hh produces a green color. Therefore:

steel x steel = steel
steel x green = royal blue
steel x royal blue = 50% steel, 50% royal blue
royal blue x royal blue = 25% steel, 50% royal blue, 25% green
royal blue x green = 50% green, 50% royal blue
green x green = green

Now it's probably not that simple since pickeringii color seems to be more of a broad spectrum than three distinct colors. Maybe it's polygenic. Maybe they have multiple layers of chromatophores (B. splendens has four; to get yellow, for example, the top 3 layers have to be turned off), but it would be interesting to try a bunch of different combinations and record the results.

[EasternGirl]

Awesome pics...thanks! That is awesome about the mom trying to crawl on you while giving birth...so sweet. Sounds like you have some wonderful snakes!

[mikem]

Pickeringii come in blue, yellow, and green, correct?

There's a red phase as well.

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah it's not quite that simple. But basically there are 3 types. yellow, green, or blue. Red phase is simply a yellow striped one with pale orange to red spotting between the stripes. They come out looking a lot like some concinnus' or a fitchii

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/general-talk/10660-puget-sound-garters-polymorphism.html

[mikem]

Ah, okay. Thanks for clarifying that for me :)

[ssssnakeluvr]

they are feeding on live feeder fish, I have 1 red spot, and ther rest are black with no spots. $35 each