Found a baby. Identification confirmation and care?

[RissaVS]

Hi, everyone! I'm new to this forum, because I'm new to garter snakes. We found what I think is a female baby black-necked garter snake in Golden, CO. My daughter wants to keep her as a pet, both parents have given the okay, but we really know next to nothing about taking care of her. So here are my questions:

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How long until we should worry about her not eating or drinking? It's been about 2 hours since we picked her up.

Did we get the identification right?

Any tips for a happy garter snake?

Thanks!

[Stefan-A]

Wandering garter snake, Thamnophis elegans vagrans.

Weeks.

Here's the caresheet: http://www.thamnophis.com/index.php?page=caresheet

[guidofatherof5]

Wandering garter snake, Thamnophis elegans vagrans.

Yep.
It can take as much as 2 or more weeks for some snake to settle in. Drinking usually isn't an issue, just be sure to give it a large water dish.


Here's a link to the forum care sheet. Garter Snake Forum - Garter Caresheet (http://www.thamnophis.com/index.php?page=caresheet)
Be sure to go to the "Welcome Lounge" and introduce yourself so we can give you a proper welcome.
Welcome Lounge (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/welcome-lounge/)

[-MARWOLAETH-]

Great looking vagrans.The care sheet covers most topics but if you have anymore questions just ask away!

[Didymus20X6]

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/attachments/welcome-lounge/4500d1332817250-just-saying-hi-t9i0px.jpg

Give him a few weeks to get settled. Some snakes won't eat for almost a month until they get used to their new surroundings.

I suggest feeding him chopped-up Canadian nightcrawlers at first, or maybe some feeder guppies or captive-bred tadpoles. Avoid red wigglers, rosy reds, and goldfish, as these can make him sick. Also avoid any feeder insects, as garters cannot digest their exoskeletons.

A 30 gallon enclosure would give him plenty of room to explore. Just put in a bunch of plastic plants for him to climb on.

For a hide, I suggest an el-cheapo Walmart flower pot. Break a hole in the rim, and turn it upside down. A perfect little cottage for a garter snake! Toilet paper and paper towel tubes are also great.

A small plastic tub or glass bowl full of water would be great, something big enough for him to go swimming in would be ideal. You could use pieces of brick or good sized rocks to allow him to climb in and out of the water. You could even put feeder guppies in the water so he can go fishin'.

Depending on your indoor house temps, you might want to get a lamp. A medium wattage incandescent bulb, if your house is cool. If your house is warm, a spiral florescent bulb to provide light will be fine instead. You'll want the enclosure temp to be around 85F.

[Steveo]

Nice find! I have a few vagrans babies myself. They're very active and will escape given the opportunity. I have my 4 in a 2qt. tupperware with some small holes in the lid. Given the time of year it's probably less than 2 weeks old.

Make sure it has access to water that it can't tip over; mine currently have a large plastic bottle cap as a water dish. I refill it daily.

Given some pinky mouse parts or silverside chunks, they'll eat when they're ready. I just offered food every other day until they decided to eat. Seems like if one of them starts eating, the rest follow suit.

I'm in SE Denver if you need any help. Frozen silversides are easy to get at Petco and I could share a few frozen pinky mice since they're pretty much mail-order only around here.

Edit: forgot about nightcrawlers. They're a good starter food that you can get at any bait shop or Walmart. Just make sure to get the Canadian Nightcrawlers; the smaller "panfish and trout worms" are usually red wigglers, which are toxic to garters.

[i_heart_sneakie_snakes]

Aw, you lucky ducky!!! I love my Wandering, they are so cool. Definately the biggest escape artists of all the Garters I have owned. Silly little guys.

[ProXimuS]

Very nice find! I don't think I 've seen a wandering that color before, really pretty:)

[katach]

Very nice find. Pretty snakie! Welcome to the forum family!

[RissaVS]

Thanks for all the input, everyone! I have her in a 12 x 6 x 6 tupperware for now, and had a small cardboard box which I turned upside down for a hide. Then I have a small deli Tupperware for her water. She hasn't been in there much yet because my girl keeps taking her out to play, but so far she's gone in the hide, under the folded paper towel I put for substrate, and between the hide and the wall of the Tupperware.

I'm relieved that we don't have to worry too much yet about the food situation. I think we'll start with the nightcrawlers. The husband will feel better about it because we could also use them for fishing.

I'll keep you updated, and I'm sure I'll have more questions after reading the caresheet.

[Invisible Snake]

Nice find, that's a cute wandering garter. I would recommend not to handle her too much for at least 2 days so that she has time to settle in to her new home and adjust with minimal stress. Live guppies are great to get a new garter snake to start eating for you, they get excited by the smell and movement of the fish.

[RissaVS]

So even though her head's smaller than a pencil eraser she could eat a whole guppie? I ended up getting silversides at the store and wasn't sure if I needed to cut them up, and into what size pieces.

[Invisible Snake]

Yes she should be able to eat a whole guppy, I recently purchased silversides at a bait store and they were too big for my young garters and I had to chop them up into tiny pieces so they could eat them.

[Selkielass]

Silversides come in a wide range of sizes- sometimes right in the same package.
I defrost the pack just enough to break apart the still frozen fish and split them up into snack sized baggies. One package. Is for quick use. The rest get tucked awày in the bottom corner of the freezer to minimize freezer burn.

Slice if bigger around than the snakes head. Ribbons are ok especially if the snake is alone, but keep the diameter a bit smaller than her head.

Slicing like this is easiest when the meat is half frozen and still solid.

[RissaVS]

It's been three days, and Elisia has defecated twice, but has not yet eaten.

She did manage to escape today, though. I had given her up for lost, as had my heartbroken daughter, when I found her hanging out in the top of the blinds! Friday the 13th isn't so unlucky after all.

Anyway, the local reptile store said to go ahead and feed her any sort of teeny fish to get her eating. They said they use goldfish and those red minnows and haven't had any problems. I also heard that you can get some minnows or guppies, put them in a deli container in her cage, and put the silverside pieces on top. Supposedly the movement will attract her and show her that the silversides are food.

What do you think?

[Invisible Snake]

Yeah give it a try if you can with guppies but if you can't find a pet store with guppies then try minnows, I would stay away from goldfish. Goldfish offer little nutritional vlaue and contain a higher parasite load than most feeder fish.

Here's a link to a youtube video demonstrating how to go about this.

Container Feeding Garter Snakes. - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O36FMumumg&list=UUlSb4BuFJog_usp_z21kPOQ&index=10&feature=plcp)

The video was created by View Profile: guidofatherof5 - Garter Snake Forum (http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/members/guidofatherof5.html)

[05brandon50]

Just do you research! Think about how heartbroken your daughter would be if your young garter were to pass due to vitamin B difficiency by feeding the wrong food items. Good luck with the little thing! :)

[RissaVS]

Our baby vagrans has been with us for almost 10 days, and she still hasn't eaten. She still seems very active and happy, likes to explore her cage and take naps in the sun. My daughter takes her out of her habitat a lot, but she seems comfortable being handled and hasn't musked since her escape.

I've tried cutting slivers of silverside and putting them on a tupperware lid in the cage or wiggling a piece in front of her with tweezers.

I've tried getting live minnows and putting them in a tupperware with her along with some silverside slivers for a few minutes.

I've tried putting nightcrawler chunks in her cage on a tupperware lid with a live moving nightcrawler. The bits were still moving a little bit. No interest. Am I supposed to rinse off all the slime and goo that comes out when you cut them? Also my pieces were about the size of her head. Too big?

I know some of you had said it can take weeks for her to eat, but I'm still stressing out about it. Do you have suggestions about what I'm doing wrong? Should I start this as a new topic?

[Steveo]

How long have you been offering the food? I've had a few that take their sweet old time, so I leave the food in overnight. Sometimes they eat, sometimes they don't. Some just don't like me hovering around and only eat when given privacy.

[RissaVS]

I usually try to leave the food in there for a while, even overnight. All of the food seems to dry out pretty quickly here, though, especially the silversides.

The live fish I just left swimming around in her water bowl. One jumped out and dried up. The others were in there for three or four days. Every time one died, I'd take the others out and replace the water. They actually ate the silversides, so at least someone has! :p

Should I cover the habitat or something after I put the food in? It's hard not to want to look in there.

[kibakiba]

They need time to settle in. Your daughter should stop handling her and let her get used to being there first.

[RissaVS]

I was wondering about that. I saw that someone said to just let her get used to her habitat for at least two or three days. It is really hard to do since she's so cute! Also since she escaped, my daughter gets anxious that she's somehow made it out again.

So we should just leave her in there for a while, opening the top only to change water or deposit food items, you think?

[Steveo]

It can't hurt to try. Babies are so small and generally afraid of everything that moves. Mine run for cover whenever I'm around; the only time they'll voluntarily come out of hiding for me is when they smell food. Sometimes they'll poke their heads out to see what I'm doing, but they flip out if I catch them in the open.

[RissaVS]

Ok, we'll give it a try. I'll keep you updated.

Thanks!

[Invisible Snake]

I was wondering about that. I saw that someone said to just let her get used to her habitat for at least two or three days. It is really hard to do since she's so cute! Also since she escaped, my daughter gets anxious that she's somehow made it out again.

So we should just leave her in there for a while, opening the top only to change water or deposit food items, you think?

That was me who said that. Definitely no more handling and make sure she has plenty of hides. Only reach in her habitat when you are changing the water dish and/or food. I'd hate to be the bearer of bad news, but considering your snake is a baby and has not eaten for 10 days is a real concern in my opinion. I hope she starts eating soon.

[kibakiba]

My babies don't eat for a couple weeks sometimes. It's not uncommon. She just needs time to adjust. They can go months without food.

[RissaVS]

I'm glad to know that your babies sometimes don't eat for weeks, kibakiba. That's a little bit of a relief.

I have to say, Invisible Snake, that I am worried too! In her lair she has three or four places she can hide: a stack of rocks, an overturned cardboard box (which seems to be her favorite), a smaller cardboard box, and underneath the water dish. Right now she is mostly out of her favorite hide, lying in the sun and seemingly watching me type. There are still three untouched chunks of Canadian nightcrawler drying out on the Tupperware lid in the middle of the hide. I'm going to leave for a while and hope one of them is gone when I get back.

[kibakiba]

Be careful with the rock stacks, if one becomes unstable it can end up crushing your snake.
Also make sure she's not in direct sunlight, that can heat a tank up like an oven!

[i_heart_sneakie_snakes]

I have a Wandering. She is a HORRIBLE eater!!! I know lots of other members have them as well and I have seen plenty of posts saying that Wanderings are great eaters. My girl fasts until I am about feeling like shes going to starve to death. She does always end up eating eventually, but it always freaks me out. Every. Single. Time!!!
That being said, I don't think 10 days without eating, after just being caught especially, is too long. I bet s/he will eat soon :)

[Light of Dae]

When I feed anything, I add enough water to cover the bottom of the dish. It keeps the worms alive longer, the fish moist n pinkie chunks from being tacky n dry.

Try a 'stew' of water, worms. lol Put in the cool side of tank n let her be.
The water also helps the smell travel I think. Plus some of my snakes LOVE swimming in their food!

This is one of my Eastern Flame Babies Swimming in her food.(a mix of Pinkie Chunks n Cut Up Worms)
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(Ps to make your images show up bigger double click on it, it will bring up a window, the only thing I do in the window is adjust size to Large)

[Light of Dae]

Oh and I've done this as well to get a non-eater to eat. ... Stop offering food. Ignore her for a few days(5-7). Then offer a nice wet dish of Worms. Maybe even try Pinkie mouse chunks(cut it up when frozen)

With my first wild baby Radix I left him alone after a week of pestering him to eat worms n fish(which he didn't touch) Then I offered something completely different. Mouse pieces. Wouldn't you know it, He ate.
New smell, New intrigue.

It can be a challenge and a very frustrating challange at that, to try n get a wild snake to eat, let alone a baby wild caught.
Give it time, He'll eat.
Lol It'll be a great tool to teach patience with, Maybe mark on a calendar with your little girl how many days are 'no playing with snake' days n then feed day!

[RissaVS]

Thanks for all the advice! I had thought about putting the food in water, but didn't know if it would be good for her, or if it would make the food more or less appetizing.

I worried about ignoring her for 5 to 7 days since she already hasn't eaten for about 10. Since most people seem to agree that baby garters can go for a while without eating, I feel a little better about it.

Today we were gone all day, so I left three silverside pieces in there before we left. Now they are just dried up bits. :-(

She's poking her head out of her hide again, watching me. I love the picture of your snake in the worm stew. :-)

As for the rock pile, they are only small, flat river stones, three on the bottom, and one on top.

[guidofatherof5]

Have you tried any feeder fish?

1O36FMumumg

[Light of Dae]

I meant put water in the dish you serve food on, not in her fresh water, It gives her more time to try them, Not eating for 20 days is fine, just means she'll be hungrier n more inclined to eat when food is suddenly offered after a long break. Trust us, she'll be fine.

Leave her alone n let her mind settle n get fully wrapped around where she is n that its not scary.
I've got a little Radix (stub tail) that I found not too to long ago, I let him go 7 days without food just fine, I fed him yesterday n now he is fat n happy looking at me.

When I first got George he went... 2 months without eating. I left him alone, not offering food or anything for two and a half weeks at the end of it... Offered food and he ate everything in his dish.

[Light of Dae]

Thanks for all the advice! I had thought about putting the food in water, but didn't know if it would be good for her, or if it would make the food more or less appetizing.

I worried about ignoring her for 5 to 7 days since she already hasn't eaten for about 10. Since most people seem to agree that baby garters can go for a while without eating, I feel a little better about it.

Today we were gone all day, so I left three silverside pieces in there before we left. Now they are just dried up bits. :-(


The more water the get the better, worst thing that could happen with a lot of water... She will pee more. lol

As far as appetizing.. I know none of my snakes will eat dry n tacky food. My very first Radix tried to eat a worm that I had set out without water and it almost seemed like he couldn't swallow it, it looked like it was so... tacky that it got stuck in his mouth. I grabbed a plastic bag, put a hole in it and dripped water on my snakes head n on his worm n then he finished it no problem.

Food stays moist with water :) Gives her a longer time to decide if she wants to eat it. She might have gone to the fish pieces n wanted one but after touching it figured it wasn't the right texture.

[RissaVS]

I did try feeder fish, too, but she really seemed uninterested. I had them swimming around in her water area until they went belly up.

I'll definitely put her food in some water when I do try to feed her again. It's amazing how long they really can go without eating, huh? It's so counterintuitive. I get paranoid that when I go to feed her after ignoring her for 5 days she'll have starved to death. :/

[RissaVS]

Light of Dae, thanks so much for the winning advice! We left her alone in her tank for about 5 days. She looked like she was getting more comfortable a few days before that because she was in the open a lot. On Sunday I put the bottom 1/3 of a pinkie in her cage, sliced into little chunks (very weird to do). Midafternoon, I glanced in, and there she was chomping away. It was really cool to watch, though I mostly looked out of the corner of my eye.

This morning I put another third of the pinkie in there, and when we came back home in a few hours it was gone. Yay! Should I be feeding her more than 1/3? She finished it up both times, but she's only about 12 inches tip to tail, and still thinner than a pencil (except for the current mouse bulge).

[Light of Dae]

Awesome to hear she ate! I'd give a full pinkie chopped up and see what she eats. I offer more then what they can eat generally. Especially with little ones, so what if they are fat for a few days they got lots of growing to do :D

Try adding some night crawlers / dew worms chopped up as well. Mine LOVE their worms mixed with pinkie mice.

[lauwersp]

REALLY nice baby... enjoy the baby stage... I'm really enjoying my first one!

[EasternGirl]

Good news that she ate! Don't worry though if she should ever go off food again. I have had snakes go off food for months for one reason or another. Garters can go a long time without eating. You should only worry if they are showing other signs of sickness or looking very thin. Sounds like things are going well for you now though! Keep us posted.

[i_heart_sneakie_snakes]

Glad to hear she ate something :)