Mike's Garters

[mikem]

Finally, I own garters! :D

You guys have seen photos of this one before... little Ariadne from Marnie!
http://i.imgur.com/v51aZ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/OiDTn.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/DK2is.jpg

[mikem]

A male concinnus that I picked up at the Hamburg, PA reptile show. Approximately 20 inches.

http://i.imgur.com/aZt1k.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/bVPKv.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/7NsZk.jpg

[Dan72]

NICE!! Mike is on board the garter train, now there's no getting off:eek:.

[EasternGirl]

Awesome pics, Mike! Little Ariadne looks great! It is good to see her. Don't have a name for the new fellow yet?

[Invisible Snake]

Congrats Mike on owning your first pair of garters!


NICE!! Mike is on board the garter train, now there's no getting off:eek:.

Full speed ahead!

[mikem]

Thanks everyone! I actually had a pair of garters before. That's how I discovered this forum. I made a thread and nobody could tell for sure what they were. I purchased them as concinnus, but I think the conclusion was that they were actually intergrades. Being somewhat of a purist, I traded them with a friend. I've been here since then, learning all I can and trying to not repeat the same issue.

And no name for the new guy just yet. I'll have to think of something :)

[chris-uk]

Welcome back to Garterville (pop. 2). Next stop Greater Garterville (pop. many).

[katach]

Awesome addition! Congrats!

[snakechick]

Awesome snakes. I love that orange face :)

[ProXimuS]

Awesome additions! Is little Ari a marcianus?

[mikem]

She's an eastern, T.s. sirtalis.

[ProXimuS]

Cool:) I wasn't sure because she looks checkered, but I was also reading Marnie's signature and saw she only had one male marcianus, and alot of easterns, but she just looked so checkered to me....:p

[kueluck]

oooohh, so tiny and CUTE!! Nice choice..........on both.

[mikem]

the concinnus grabbing a worm from my hand!
http://i.imgur.com/kloBz.jpg

Couldn't get a good shot of Ari feeding, so here she is with one of my natrix girls.
http://i.imgur.com/In8JB.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

Nice looking group.

[ProXimuS]

Awww she makes a good pair with your natrix:)

[katach]

Great group!

[EasternGirl]

Great pics Mike! Ari looks very similar to the natrix in that pic. To answer Emily...the easterns around here have a very distinctive checkered pattern below the dorsal stripe. I have often thought the same thing...that they look very much like checkereds...however, checkereds have very different faces than easterns. They have a flame kind of pattern stemming up on the supralabial scales. That is the best way I know how to describe it. Ari is the baby of my two WC easterns...Cee Cee and Seeley. We don't have marcianus in the wild around here to my knowledge...I think they tend to be found further south. I have only seen eastern garters here in Delaware.

[EasternGirl]

Lol...I just showed Julian the pics of Ariadne. He was so happy to see her! In the pic of her and the nartrix...he couldn't figure out which one was Ari! Lol...he is now arguing with me that Ari is a natrix....rofl!

[ProXimuS]

Great pics Mike! Ari looks very similar to the natrix in that pic. To answer Emily...the easterns around here have a very distinctive checkered pattern below the dorsal stripe. I have often thought the same thing...that they look very much like checkereds...however, checkereds have very different faces than easterns. They have a flame kind of pattern stemming up on the supralabial scales. That is the best way I know how to describe it. Ari is the baby of my two WC easterns...Cee Cee and Seeley. We don't have marcianus in the wild around here to my knowledge...I think they tend to be found further south. I have only seen eastern garters here in Delaware.

Ahhh I see. Thanks for the explanaion:) I haven't learned faces so much yet...I mostly am learning by markings. Now I'll have to start paying attention to faces more:p

[mikem]

Check out this pretty face :cool:
http://i.imgur.com/qUxdH.jpg

[ProXimuS]

OOO:D So who is this one?

[mikem]

Just a lovely puget I picked up from Richard. Treated myself to a nice little group of them :)

[guidofatherof5]

Good looking snake.

Nice photo.

[ProXimuS]

Very nice, I really like Pugets:D

[mikem]

Puget and concinnus are my favorites. Hoping to get a group of concinnus this year too. We'll see. :)

[EasternGirl]

How many pugets did you get? Gorgeous! You are so lucky...def on my list of wanted garters!

[mikem]

I got a group of 2.3. I'll have to get some more photos of the group. They're beautiful! It's rainy today, so I'll have to wait on more pics.

[EasternGirl]

And you didn't even discuss them with me on the phone last night! I appreciate that you were letting me vent about my problems though. :) That's so awesome...I am very excited for you. Yes...we def need more pics!!!

[mikem]

Well, that's what friends are for. :)
More pics coming soon!

[mikem]

Here is my two pickeringii boys
http://i.imgur.com/9hfkw.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

They look like a couple of kids ready to play in the backyard:D

[ProXimuS]

Yea they look they're scoping everything out:D


Very jealous btw.....:p

[katach]

Very handsome boys you have there. The look like they are ready for mischief :D

[EasternGirl]

What an awesome pic, Mike! Gorgeous snakes!

[BUSHSNAKE]

Just a lovely puget I picked up from Richard. Treated myself to a nice little group of them :)
good for you! pickeringii is one of the best species out there to have no matter what color they are.

[mikem]

Thanks, I love them! :)

[ConcinusMan]

Puget and concinnus are my favorites. Hoping to get a group of concinnus this year too. We'll see. :)

When it comes to keeping them, they're one and the same if you ask me. Everything about them is the same to me. They just have different "paint jobs" LoL. And it looks like you shall have concinnus' soon as well.

[Dan72]

Nice. The addiction grows, that's the way it works. Can't wait to see future updates and more pics.

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah, what's up with that? Let's see the girls! My photos of them kind of suck.

[EasternGirl]

Mike...you are a full fledged garter addict now! If you keep getting snakes...you might have to move over to the ranch with Steve. Lol. I'm telling you...we should all pool our money one of these days and buy a nice big ranch somewhere and start a snake commune. I'm ready to leave civilization for the comforts of a sheltered snake life.

[mikem]

I'm totally down for a snake commune :D I will try to get them out this weekend for some photo shoots :)

[ConcinusMan]

Alright but if you guys start dancing around in circles and chanting while holding handfuls of garters...:cool:

[kueluck]

Hmmmmm...but isn't that biblical? And these signs shall follow them that believe: In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues. They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. (Mark 16:17-18 (http://bibref.hebtools.com/?book=%20Mark&verse=16:17-18&src=KJV))

I know, I know, that is so wrong on so many levels but I just couldn't resist this one. :rolleyes:

[EasternGirl]

Lol....we must be naked around a fire when dancing and chanting with the snakes. And we must start believing that God is a garter snake. :D

So...according to the biblical reference...since I hold serpents all the time...if I lay my hands on sick people now...can I cure them? :D

[ProXimuS]

Lol....we must be naked around a fire when dancing and chanting with the snakes. And we must start believing that God is a garter snake. :D

So...according to the biblical reference...since I hold serpents all the time...if I lay my hands on sick people now...can I cure them? :D


You mean he's not?!?!?:p

[guidofatherof5]

You mean he's not?!?!?:p

Nope but I know he loves the little scrubs.

[Invisible Snake]

So...according to the biblical reference...since I hold serpents all the time...if I lay my hands on sick people now...can I cure them? :D You could lay your hands on me anytime lol jk =P

[ConcinusMan]

...can I cure them? :D

There is no cure for garter fever

[-MARWOLAETH-]

Only death mwahahahahaha

[mikem]

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Hard to get these three ladies to cooperate for a photo. This is the best of the batch I took. I'll try for some individual pics later.

[ProXimuS]

Awesome awesome awesome! They look so pretty:D

[BUSHSNAKE]

those are very sweet!!

[EasternGirl]

So beautiful!

[mikem]

Thanks everyone :)

[kueluck]

They are so pretty. Now I want one of those too!! How many snakes will fit in a 40 gallon breeder?

[guidofatherof5]

Good looking trio.

[EasternGirl]

Ha ha ha...Gail has the addiction now. Okay Gail...now stand up and introduce yourself.."My name is Gail and I am a garterholic"..."Hi Gail, welcome to our club!".

[kueluck]

I wouldn't call it an addition, more like an appreciation of what the Creator has given us. Yeah, that's it, an appreciation.:D

Ha ha ha...Gail has the addiction now. Okay Gail...now stand up and introduce yourself.."My name is Gail and I am a garterholic"..."Hi Gail, welcome to our club!".

[mikem]

New garters! T.s.concinnus.

First up the boys, normal
http://i.imgur.com/o5BPt.jpg

hypo
http://i.imgur.com/JTnHo.jpg

And the girls, normal
http://i.imgur.com/ikfEk.jpg

anery #1
http://i.imgur.com/nM0yT.jpg

anery #2
http://i.imgur.com/1GEWB.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

Nice looking group Mike.

[Invisible Snake]

Sweet looking additions, may I ask who did you get them from?

[mikem]

Richard, aka concinnusman.

[Invisible Snake]

*Seinfeld voice* Richard!

[ProXimuS]

So pretty!! I never realized how pretty their bellies ever are:D

[EasternGirl]

So pretty! Love the blue ones. How is their disposition?

[mikem]

Very calm and curious. Big sweethearts :D

[mikem]

More garters! Columbia repticon was fun. Met up with Bluesirtalis and chatted a bit. Super nice guy and lives fairly close by, so hopefully we can get together for some herping soon! Looking forward to it!

male T.s.similis
http://i.imgur.com/TqEql.jpg
female T.s.similis
http://i.imgur.com/r71ct.jpg
male T.marcianus
http://i.imgur.com/qjBn6.jpg
female T.marcianus
http://i.imgur.com/Lru3m.jpg

[ProXimuS]

You're so lucky!!! Those are awesome:D I loove albino checkereds, but that normal female is beautiful too! Are you going to be breeding any of these pairs?

[mikem]

Thanks! Yes, my plans are to breed garters. I'll see who's in the mood next season ;)

[BUSHSNAKE]

those are real nice similis mike

[mikem]

thanks joe :)

[mikem]

Got this puget to settle down for some photos, so here's a couple shots of her.
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5968

[EasternGirl]

Wow! They are all great looking snakes! The albino looks like Hermes! Awesome collection you have now! :)

[kimbosaur]

That colour combo is stunning!

It looks like you went from 0-12 in a month!!

[mikem]

I'm currently experimenting with bedding. I don't like aspen shavings for my garters... too much of it sticks to food items for my liking.

Has anyone tried feeding quail to their garters?
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[kueluck]

Quail, I'm curious about the input on this. I would be afraid of the feather issue, and I guess since this would not be in their wild diet, is it good in their captive environment??

[Invisible Snake]

Cool pics, did you have to scent the quails?

[mikem]

I had a couple extra quail thawed and thought I'd try it, just to see what would happen. These two took it immediately. No scenting. I have no plans to continue feeding quail, it was just an experiment. I wasn't expecting them to take it, but I had my camera ready just in case.

[Invisible Snake]

Wow you went from having no garters to owning 16 garters in just a couple of months, it really is addictive! :)

[mikem]

I'm catching up with you! ;)

[EasternGirl]

You have actually surpassed my collection! When you came to my house, you had no garters...you left Delaware with 2 and now you have more than I do! :D

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Hey Mike i may make it up that way this weekend and if i do i'll call you. Those are some nice looking similis man!


More garters! Columbia repticon was fun. Met up with Bluesirtalis and chatted a bit. Super nice guy and lives fairly close by, so hopefully we can get together for some herping soon! Looking forward to it!

male T.s.similis
http://i.imgur.com/TqEql.jpg
female T.s.similis
http://i.imgur.com/r71ct.jpg
male T.marcianus
http://i.imgur.com/qjBn6.jpg
female T.marcianus
http://i.imgur.com/Lru3m.jpg

[mikem]

Thanks! They need some weight on them, but other than that, they're awesome. Definitely call me :cool:

[mikem]

My male similis dropped dead. He was fine Saturday and dead Sunday. The female was also on the edge of death Sunday and I wasn't expecting her to make it over night. Yesterday morning I opened her cage, expecting her to have passed and she was like a little firecracker. Totally normal. She went from a limp noodle to full of life in one night. I've never seen anything like it. She even ate a night crawler and two pinks. I'm gonna have to invest in some meds if I'm going to purchase wild caught animals. They both were pretty thin when I got them. Hoping the female continues to thrive. I'll keep you guys updated.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Hey Mike sorry for your loss on the male similis. I hope the female continues to progress for you.

[ConcinusMan]

I got a contact on facebook that is catching some really nice blue/green garters in Florida but I think they're FL blue's, not similis' since he's in So FL. He's been bugging me to buy some (cheap). I'm tempted.

You're right about perhaps learning how to dose for worms, and getting some meds to have on hand, if you're going to be buying WC snakes. Most sellers don't bother and then you get all kinds of problems. The symptoms you're describing sounds like a heavy parasite load. Combine that with the stress of being captured and perhaps not kept under the best of conditions, and you will likely have problems, even if the snake didn't have any real health problems from the parasites when it was still in the wild. It's having that parasite load and then combining it with the stress / captivity, then the heavy load starts causing problems.


This is why WC gets a bad rap. Some people flat refuse to buy them, but what they don't realize is, if you properly quarantine and observe for health problems for a few weeks, and deworm them right, they really end up being just as good, if not better (better genes, better hardiness) than CB snakes. I don't know what kind of bad experience these people have had with buying WC snakes, but in my experience, once they are screened and dewormed, I have few problems with them. Now CB in my experience, can come with plenty of problems too. They are no less likely to have issues than WC , in my opinion. In fact, many CB lines seem inferior to me in many ways.

[Steveo]

Sorry for your loss, Mike.

[Steveo]

This is why WC gets a bad rap. Some people flat refuse to buy them, but what they don't realize is, if you properly quarantine and observe for health problems for a few weeks, and deworm them right, they really end up being just as good, if not better (better genes, better hardiness) than CB snakes. I don't know what kind of bad experience these people have had with buying WC snakes, but in my experience, once they are screened and dewormed, I have few problems with them. Now CB in my experience, can come with plenty of problems too. They are no less likely to have issues than WC , in my opinion. In fact, many CB lines seem inferior to me in many ways.

I think the biggest problem is when you have both. On the one hand, you have CB snakes that are healthy but perhaps weak genetically. Certainly we raise some snakes which wouldn't have survived in the wild, and we do it in a relatively sterile environment with few immunological challenges. Then a WC snake carrying who-knows-what enters the picture. Proper use of aseptic technique can virtually eliminate cross-contamination, but proper aseptic technique can eat up a lot of time and energy; I've been doing it with my WC vagrans and her two remaining offspring, but since I ordered a bunch of scrubs it's getting tiring and rather than risk losing everyone I'm going to release them. I'm sure the vagrans would live long and healthy lives in captivity, but I don't know that my CB snakes could stand up to their parasite load and I don't really care to find out.

[Invisible Snake]

My male similis dropped dead. He was fine Saturday and dead Sunday. The female was also on the edge of death Sunday and I wasn't expecting her to make it over night. Yesterday morning I opened her cage, expecting her to have passed and she was like a little firecracker. Totally normal. She went from a limp noodle to full of life in one night. I've never seen anything like it. She even ate a night crawler and two pinks. I'm gonna have to invest in some meds if I'm going to purchase wild caught animals. They both were pretty thin when I got them. Hoping the female continues to thrive. I'll keep you guys updated. I'm sorry for your loss. Was he eating regularly? Besides parasites anything else that may have caused his death?

[guidofatherof5]

Sorry to hear you lost the male.

[mikem]

I'm sorry for your loss. Was he eating regularly? Besides parasites anything else that may have caused his death?

He looked normal, just a bit thin. When I got him home he was eating just fine. Like Richard said, probably the combination of parasites and stress. I can't really think of anything else.

[norcalj]

NICE!! Mike is on board the garter train, now there's no getting off:eek:.


Haha....You got that right!:D

[guidofatherof5]

Nope, just hooking more cars up.:D

[EasternGirl]

So sorry to hear about that male, Mike. Please keep us posted on the female. I hope she is okay.

[mikem]

Found a little surprise this morning... 10 baby pugets!
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Mom looks like a deflated tire.
6197

[guidofatherof5]

Beautiful little scrubs.
How's mom doing?

[EasternGirl]

So adorable! Congrats! You could put those babies in with Ari...then she will have company! So excited for you...but I don't think I will be taking the puget baby I asked for...not now anyway. Too many snakes and too much snake drama right now! Lol...:D

[mikem]

Mom is tired. She had a big drink and seems to be resting now. She quit eating a couple of weeks ago. I was expecting a shed before the babies came, but she never did, so that's why it was a surprise :) I'll offer her some worms tomorrow and see if her appetite has returned.

Marnie.. you and your drama, lol! ;) Ari will have plenty of company soon http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[mikem]

oops, double post.

[BUSHSNAKE]

those youngsters are cute as hell...can you sex them? i have a lone 2012 male that could use some company.

[Invisible Snake]

Congrats on the litter!

[kibakiba]

Congrats on the super cute litter!

[kueluck]

Babies, babies, babies, how we love the babies. Congrats Mike, ah, maybe I don't need to buy another garter at the show this weekend. ;)

[Mandi0284]

Lol Garterville.....I like that.

You have very pretty snakes. She is so little.


Welcome back to Garterville (pop. 2). Next stop Greater Garterville (pop. many).

[mikem]

Just sexed them the babies. 7 males and 3 females. My other female is having babies right now! Exciting :D :D :D

[guidofatherof5]

Very cool. New scrub birth is awesome to watch.

[mikem]

It is! Thanks everyone :cool:

[BLUESIRTALIS]

Congrats!!! I bet you are super excited.

[mikem]

Thanks! I've counted 11 so far. Still more inside her :)

[BUSHSNAKE]

thats awesome...pickeringii is one my favorites!

[EasternGirl]

Congrats on the babies! Pics or it didn't happen! You need to come and sex my babies for me. I think the easterns are both males but what do I know? Did you confirm that Ari is female?

[mikem]

Yep, Ari is definitely a female :) I'm going to sex the new babies tomorrow as I feed and clean cages. Then Friday it's off to Myrtle Beach for some new additions, haha!

Oh, and the other puget only had 12 babies. I'd thought there would be more since she was so big. 22 babies total.

[Invisible Snake]

Just out of curiousity, what are your plans with the babies? Are any of the Puget babies blue phase? o.O

[ProXimuS]

Wooow! How exciting Mike:D Congrats on all the new additions!

[ConcinusMan]

I think the biggest problem is when you have both. On the one hand, you have CB snakes that are healthy but perhaps weak genetically. Certainly we raise some snakes which wouldn't have survived in the wild, and we do it in a relatively sterile environment with few immunological challenges. Then a WC snake carrying who-knows-what enters the picture. Proper use of aseptic technique can virtually eliminate cross-contamination, but proper aseptic technique can eat up a lot of time and energy; I've been doing it with my WC vagrans and her two remaining offspring, but since I ordered a bunch of scrubs it's getting tiring and rather than risk losing everyone I'm going to release them. I'm sure the vagrans would live long and healthy lives in captivity, but I don't know that my CB snakes could stand up to their parasite load and I don't really care to find out.

WC snakes have been living with parasites for many generations. In the wild, they act more as a health enforcer than a health problem. They generally don't kill their host, but if the snake has other issues...

[mikem]

My anery concinnus girl popped out some babies last night.

This one is looks really green in person!
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Hypo? The reds along the side are really pale. The yellow also has a bit of a green glow to it.
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Two came out looking like this.
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This one has low patterning, photo took during an inhale to show the light red coloration.
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[ProXimuS]

Awesome! Nice lookin kids:D Did you know this girl was gravid?

[mikem]

I suspected it, but wasn't 100%. It was a nice surprise after coming home from work :D

[guidofatherof5]

Very nice.

[BUSHSNAKE]

awesome, you need to keep and raise them all to see how they turn out, it seems the "blue anery" ones start with some red and then lose it over time.

[ConcinusMan]

I suspected it, but wasn't 100%.

Oh, i was pretty sure. Of course, we don't know who the father is, but from what I've heard, there is one person in NW Oregon that has bred these anerys and it was anery X anery. Pretty much got the same results you did. I have a feeling that some of those babies will end up looking like mom eventually.

Still thinking this is polymorphism. You wouldn't believe the variety found in that population. Perfectly "normal" to hypoerythristic, to anery without blue, to very blue anery, to anything in between. Thinking polymorphism, with the anery trait having variable expression.


awesome, you need to keep and raise them all to see how they turn out, it seems the "blue anery" ones start with some red and then lose it over time.

I think so too. Never seen a fully anery or blue anery baby but I've seen results like this in litters. Who knows how they turn out when they mature.

[BUSHSNAKE]

...and because its a natural varient the term anerythristic should never be used to describe it:rolleyes:lol

[BUSHSNAKE]

....and because its not black with a light patern hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[mikem]

Fine, blue phase :p

[ConcinusMan]

Alright Joe. Whatever you're smoking, pass it over. You know darn well why we call it anerythristic.:cool:


Fine,blue phase :p I've just been calling them anery because everyone else has. I don't know, lol :cool:

No. That won't work either. Not all of the concinnus' lacking red/orange have blue anywhere on them. Furthermore, plenty of "normals" with normal red/orange do have blue.

We are calling them anery for lack of anything better to call them.

Anerythrism is defined as the absence of the pigment erythrin, which is mainly the reds and also the yellow pigments. These snakes not only lack the usual orange or red, but also never have any yellow in their stripes. Just turquoise, blue, or white.

[BUSHSNAKE]

bubblebubblebubble..........exhale

[ConcinusMan]

Oh look, your face is turning blue. Just like these snakes.

[BUSHSNAKE]

im anerythristic..hahahaha

[kueluck]

Congrats Mike on the babies. Wasn't it just a few months ago you were garterless?? Are you trying to out do Steve? :D

[EasternGirl]

That's what I keep saying...that he needs to think about moving to the ranch...lol. Those babies are so awesome! Yep...I still need to confirm the sex of my babies...and Ziggy. I think the new baby is a girl...she has a little bump that I am keeping an eye on...could be parasites.

Joe...pass that dutchie on the left hand side...:D.

[mikem]

I've only got a few babies eating worms and/or fish right now. Going to pick up some feeder guppies this weekend and see if something with more movement will get the rest interested.

[BUSHSNAKE]

give them time and keep them hydrated...theyll get going

[BUSHSNAKE]

are the babies a good size?

[mikem]

Oh yea. They're pretty big babies. I was surprised how big they were haha :cool:

[EasternGirl]

I think it took my babies a week in a half to eat for the first time after they were born. Just keep offering food so you don't miss that window that I told you that Steve told me about.

[ProXimuS]

Hey Mike, I just came across this thread randomly, and am confused : http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/general-talk/9850-my-new-garter-s.html

I thought that when you made this(current) thread that they were your first garters. Do you still have those two little confusing guys?(Sorry for being nosy, i'm just confused now:p)

[mikem]

That thread was made when I was just getting into garters and found this forum. I purchased those two as concinnus, but as you could tell from the posts in that thread, it wasn't that simple. So, not being sure, I gave them to a local guy who keeps a couple garters.

[ProXimuS]

It probably might be for the best....Since they were so mysterious:p Glad you've got all the nice ones, that you know waht they are now!

[EasternGirl]

I haven't asked you recently? How is little Ari doing? Perseus and Zeus are getting big! Post some pics of her!

Did I tell you the story about how when Ari was born...Cee Cee had been in with Seeley and I was unaware that she had delivered Ari while she was in his tank? I took her back out and put her back in her tank. A few hours later, I looked in Seeley's tank and found Seeley and Ari curled up together under the basking lamp! It was priceless!

[ProXimuS]

Hoow cute! Daddy and baby, that would've been a cute picture:)

[EasternGirl]

I know! Of course...I was just stunned to see another baby and in a hurry to get her into another tank! But it was one of the most adorable things I have ever seen...and the best surprise!

[kueluck]

Mike, what about the "stripeless" one from Myrtle from the vendor across from Scott. Are you keeping that one?

[mikem]

I haven't taken any new pics yet. Need to take some pics of the new additions :) Everyone is doing well though!