Injured T.s.concinnus

[guidofatherof5]

While walking by the concinnus paddock I noticed one hide sitting on top of the other. I knew there had been some kind of trouble.
Opening the enclosure I didn't notice anything at first then saw this male off in a corner.
Yesterday was an off food day so I don't know what caused the trouble. What I do know is that this male has been chewed on by one of the big females.
I cleaned the would with a betadine solution then applies some silver sulfadiazine. He appears to be moving okay but refused to eat. He is out in a tub until this heals up.
The enclosure they live in is 6 foot long but can be converted to a double so that's what I have done.
Girls on one side and boys on the other. I'm not happy that their roaming space has been cut in half but it will have to do for now.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/injured_tsc.jpg

[ProXimuS]

Oooh wow, that looks painful. It looks pretty deep:( Can snakes have stitches?

[CoffeeBlack]

Whoa..hope he heals nicely for you. Its good you caught it now .

[guidofatherof5]

Yes but it's probably best to let it scab over and heal on it's own.
Just my opinion.

[ProXimuS]

Yes, let nature take it's course, sounds good. At least he doesn't look like he's super concerned. Hoping for the best!:)

[Selkielass]

Poor boy, he will probably have some interesting scars.
Trax has several that appear to have come from similar skin shifting injuries.
Raw honey is an excellent dressing for surface wounds like this- the sugars feed and moisturise tissues while th3 acids and oxygen bearing compounds inhibit bacterial growth. Kept most and soft prevent drying out of deeper tissues and reduces scarring,
The naturalists at my local nature center swear by it for reptiles and amphibians.

[guidofatherof5]

Poor boy, he will probably have some interesting scars.
Trax has several that appear to have come from similar skin shifting injuries.
Raw honey is an excellent dressing for surface wounds like this- the sugars feed and moisturise tissues while th3 acids and oxygen bearing compounds inhibit bacterial growth. Kept most and soft prevent drying out of deeper tissues and reduces scarring,
The naturalists at my local nature center swear by it for reptiles and amphibians.

I just happen to have some honey. I wonder where I got that.

[kueluck]

Poor little guy. Scars are just tattoo with more interesting stories. If only he could talk.

[Spankenstyne]

Ouch. At least he's in good hands on the ranch. It's amazing sometimes what they can sustain without seeming any worse for the wear.

[-MARWOLAETH-]

Poor bugger. Hope he patches up alright.

[katach]

With the enclosure in disarray could they have locked up and she tried to say that's enough? Poor little fella. Give him a chin scratch for me.

[-MARWOLAETH-]

was it was a accident at feeding time or did the female fancy a snack?

[chris-uk]

Shame the little guy will have some scars, although some of the females might find it attractive. I suppose you'll never know what it was all about.
How big are they in this group? There's not a huge difference in size between male and female is there?

[EasternGirl]

That looks quite painful...glad the fellow is in good hands. Please keep us posted on his progress and I really wish the best for him.

[Invisible Snake]

I hope he makes a full recovery.

[Mommy2many]

We females can be nasty :)

[Invisible Snake]

We females can be nasty :)

So true lol :cool:

[InsanePirateDragon]

Yeesh, poor little bugger looks like he nearly lost a good size chunk.

[d_virginiana]

Ouch! Hope everything heals up fine. :(

[guidofatherof5]

Not that I think the girls deserve a new home but I gave it to them anyway.
With my bull snakes re-homed this large enclosure opened up.
I hope they enjoy the new digs and grow large.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//747/medium/tsc_newhome.jpg

[Invisible Snake]

Not that I think the girls deserve a new home but I gave it to them anyway.
With my bull snakes re-homed this large enclosure opened up.
I hope they enjoy the new digs and grow large.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//747/medium/tsc_newhome.jpg

Looks awesome! :)

[katach]

That is an awesome tank! I wish I had room for a few of those.

[InsanePirateDragon]

Yeah how big is that out of curiosity? It looks huge.

But I would kill for some nice size enclosures like that, of course coming from someone who's oldest garter is living it up in a 40 gal by his lonesome at the moment.

[katach]

I think he said they are 6ft long. I could be wrong though.

[chris-uk]

I think he said they are 6ft long. I could be wrong though.
The bull snakes were around 6-7ft, so I think you're right about the viv size. Steve will no doubt confirm in a few hours.

Steve - I'm sure they'll love it, but I agree, I don't think at least one of those girls deserves it. Have the males got the run of the old shared concinnus enclosure?

[ConcinusMan]

Ouch! I can't imagine what went wrong unless...

It looks like a feeding bite. Maybe he had some food smell on him. Time to split them up Steve. Small groups with plenty of room. They're not babies anymore.

And to address the other comments, stitches aren't really necessary unless it's to keep organs from hanging out. Keeping it disinfected until it scabs over is fine. I'm sure he'll heal up fine, although there will be a permenent scar. I've seen way worse make a full recovery. Like ribs showing and/or broken backs.

I would also not feed him at all until that wound is healed, even if he's willing to eat. You shouldn't feed them when they're injured. It slows the healing.

Might want to consider washing them down after feeding time and make darn sure there's no scraps left in the tank for them to come in contact with.

[guidofatherof5]

Spotted the little male up getting a drink this evening. Good sign.

[ProXimuS]

Good to hear:)

[ConcinusMan]

He'll be fine. As long as the damage was done by another snake chewing, it's doubtful there's any internal injury.

[Selkielass]

Yay! I hope he continues to do well.
Sounds like they are scrappy feeders.

[thamneil]

That looks painful! How big were the females? He's in good hands with Dr. Steve. I'm sure he'll make a speedy recovery!

[guidofatherof5]

That looks painful! How big were the females? He's in good hands with Dr. Steve. I'm sure he'll make a speedy recovery!

Females are twice as big.

[guidofatherof5]

The little males injury has scabbed over and he came out for some food this morning. I gave him 3 extra small pinkies.
We will see how things pass the injured area. These were very small pinks.
I hope he continues his recovery.
Next big hurdle for this guy will be a good shed. I think he'll need a little assistance for the next few sheds though.

[ProXimuS]

Very good to hear. Glad he's eating :)

[-MARWOLAETH-]

Nice to hear he's doing what concinnus do best(stuffing their faces:D).I'm sure he'll make a good recovery at the ranch.

[guidofatherof5]

Not so good of news. He regurgitated two of the pinkies. He's working hard to push the other one by the injury.
Fingers crossed he'll get one of them down.
I'm hoping he take night crawlers at the next feeding. He should be able to pass those by.

[ProXimuS]

Let's hope he can keep the last one down. Maybe it's still too sore to get that much down. Keep us posted:)

[mikem]

At least he's willing to eat! Smaller meals may be best until he heals a bit more. Good luck! :)

[guidofatherof5]

Hasn't gotten the pinky past the injury site and hasn't done a regurg. Guess we will have to wait and see what happens.

[guidofatherof5]

Looks like he was able to pass the pinky. I think for a few weeks I will give him night crawlers.

[mikem]

Thanks for the update :) Best of luck with him!

[kueluck]

Nice to know he's in good hands with you.

[EasternGirl]

Good to hear he is doing better...please continue to keep us posted. Yes..we females can be nasty...I would like to bite some of my ex's...lol. When I was pregnant with my son...I probably would have stolen food out of someone's mouth if I could have gotten away with it! Lol. Steve, that enclosure is awesome. I wish I could build something like that. If I were to save up money for Julian and I to come to Iowa for a visit in the future...do you think I could persuade you to build me a couple of those? I would pay for supplies of course.

[guidofatherof5]

Of course, we can build a couple but how in the world would you get them back home?

[EasternGirl]

Rent a Uhaul of course! They have those little ones that you can hook on to the back of your car for small cargo. Have used them many times for moving. Even drove a big one across the country once. Of course, this is all in the future when I can have some money saved up.

[guidofatherof5]

It sounds like a plan. It will require a couple days. You and Julian are more then welcome to stay here at the Ranch.
The kids and I love having company around. It will take at least couple day for you to meet my radixes.

[guidofatherof5]

I just checked on the injured one. He's in deep opaque this morning. I will be monitoring his shed closely.

[guidofatherof5]

I just checked on the injured one. He's in deep opaque this morning. I will be monitoring his shed closely.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//500/medium/injured_tsc1.jpg

[InsanePirateDragon]

Well it doesn't look so raw, but thats probably because of the shed. Probably going to be a messy shed thats going to be in a few pieces.

[guidofatherof5]

Well it doesn't look so raw, but thats probably because of the shed. Probably going to be a messy shed thats going to be in a few pieces.

Well anticipated. I have a feeling the next years worth of sheds are going to be an issue.

[InsanePirateDragon]

Yeah, once it heals up, he shouldn't have any more problems.

I know Marley's first shed after the cat had attacked him, it was in pieces and I had to work with a few to get all of it off. But the next shed he didn't have any trouble with, so it should be the same with this guy.

[guidofatherof5]

My concern is the lack of belly scales at the injury site.
He's missing 3 belly scales, this will leave him open to infection from belly abrasions.

[ProXimuS]

When he sheds on the injury site, will it open the woud back up? Or will we all just have to wait and see?

[InsanePirateDragon]

Ooh, that does sound bad, is it entirely gone or is there any pieces at all. I've only dealt with a few belly scale nicks and kept it clean as best I could.

[guidofatherof5]

All gone. I'll try to get a photo within the next few weeks.
I know when he sheds the scabs will be opened and I'll have to deal with that.

[guidofatherof5]

Eyes are back to normal. I'll be watching him closely to make sure the shed goes well.

[guidofatherof5]

Just as I expected. He was able to shed above the injury but not below.
He's in shed box for a few hours and maybe the whole night. I have a feeling he'll be able to take care of it with the shed box help.
I'll get a few photos of the injury site after he comes out of the shed box.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//747/medium/injured_tsc2.jpg

[mikem]

Thanks for the update. Hope he can do it on his own. :)

[ProXimuS]

What does the shed box consist of? Just a damp place?

[guidofatherof5]

Cs0Vqm2pP18

[ProXimuS]

Thanks Steve:) Such a cute little baby in the video too!

[guidofatherof5]

As I suspected when I checked on him, he needed some help and all the scabs came off with the shed.
Down to raw muscle again. The good thing is the fact their is no infection and the muscle looks good and red. There was also no bleeding when the scabs came off.
I've placed him in a tub container until the scabs form again. This will be the process for the next 6 months or more.
He's taking all the attention in stride and doing very well.
I think this was a good shed for his continued healing.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//747/medium/injured_tsc3.jpg
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//747/medium/injured_tsc_4.jpg

[ProXimuS]

Owie!!! It does seem to look better than when it was fresh though. Glad it turned out alright:)

[Invisible Snake]

Just curious, but have you considered putting him down?

[kibakiba]

Why would he put him down if he's doing okay? His guts aren't hanging out, he's healthy. I'd consider his injury to be minor, compared to being hit by a lawnmower, which some snakes do live through. He'll be scarred, but I'm sure he'll be fine.

[InsanePirateDragon]

Nice video Steve, and its actually looking good, nice and pink which is what you want to see.

And just sort of something I've seen done out here on other critters. Would any vetrap possibly help protect the area of those missing belly scales. I've seen people use it on their chicken's feet when they've been injured and it seems to work fine with them outside. But not sure how well it would work on a snake.

And for some reason the name 'Chewie' keeps popping in my head for the tough little guy.

@Invisible Snake

Same with Chantel,I don't think thats necessary at this point, I think the only main concern now is making sure the little guy doesn't catch any infections through the wound.

[Invisible Snake]

I never said or implied that Steve should put him down. I simply asked If he has considered it.

[kimbosaur]

I can't believe how much damage was done! Looking better though.

[Wyoming]

When we adopted our really nasty rat attacked Ball Python the vet put her on a topical treatment of "Granulex V" and it was amazing how quickly she healed. She had one really bad shed and then the next 2 were a little troubled but not horrible and since then she has been problem free in the shed dept.

She had 7 major bites all along her spiine, bone showed in 3 of the holes and the others were almost there.

Here are a couple pics after the first 2 sheds:
http://www.masonwyo.com/reptiles/Python/Scar-Let/Rat Bite/Scar-let_7_Bites.jpghttp://www.masonwyo.com/reptiles/Python/Scar-Let/Rat Bite/Scar-let_3.jpg

I know that for the first few weeks the vet had us bathing her and applying the Granulex V 3 times a day. Now she has healed up almost completely.

Good Luck.

PS The Granulex is around $10 a bottle for the liquid, don't get the spray. You can probably get it local from a vet if you are buddies or you can order it online.

[guidofatherof5]

Just curious, but have you considered putting him down?

Never felt the injury was that serious. It's always an option if this injury goes South.
Hoping he will make as good a recovery as possible and can become a good breeding male.
I think this injury is superficial but will be a long time healing.
Infection is my biggest concern.

[ConcinusMan]

Looks like the prognosis is very good to me, with continued special care. Doesn't look so bad. Well, it looks bad, but not life threatening, to me. Good luck.

[mikem]

"It's just a flesh wound". I'd name him the Black Knight, lol!

Glad there's no signs of infection. :)

[Stefan-A]

"It's just a flesh wound". I'd name him the Black Knight, lol!
There are definitely some similarities. Roughly the same colors, to name one.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/thamnoph/photos/garbage/silly-english-black-knigget.jpg

[Selkielass]

"It's just a flesh wound". I'd name him the Black Knight, lol!

Glad there's no signs of infection. :)
Monty.

[katach]

Glad he's doing better. I hope that female got put in time out for a good long time.

[guidofatherof5]

Glad he's doing better. I hope that female got put in time out for a good long time.

Yeah, all the females got a much bigger enclosure with an the amenities. Some punishment.:D

[guidofatherof5]

3 extra small pinkies in last night and 3 extra small pinkies passed the injury site.
I have to be honest I don't see how as the skin is really tight in that area. Looks bad, but seems to be working.
I do feel much better that the food is staying down.

[mikem]

That's great news!

[ProXimuS]

Good to hear! Maybe his skin will just bulge more on the opposite side of the scar when the food passes through.

[ConcinusMan]

No, it will get back to normal flexibility after it heals. It's just that unless a snake is half starved to death, you shouldn't feed them until they heal almost completely, or you get issues. I know it seems counterintuitive, but it's true. As long as they are not malnourished, it's better if they fast for a month or so and give the wound time to heal. There's a metabolic cost to digesting a meal and it's best to save that cost so it can be applied to healing, and that's beside the complications caused by stretching skin.

No real harm done, here, just delaying the healing is all.

[jaleely]

Poor lil guy! Spoiled females! lol
That bp is sad to see, as well.
I hate seeing the poor things all hurt. Keep us updated with pics!

[guidofatherof5]

Here's a couple updated photos of the real trouble area. The healing/scaring process has caused the skin to contract on the belly.
I'm treating the area with a very light coating of zinc oxide per my friend Steve Schmidt's recommendation.
The snake's attitude is normal now. Other then having trouble passing the food passed the injury site.
I'm so glad to see him active again.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//747/medium/injured_tsc4.jpghttp://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//747/medium/injured_tsc5.jpg

[chris-uk]

So far the outcome of this injury is looking a lot better than it could have been. Thanks for the update.

[ProXimuS]

Wow that is looking quite a bit better now. It still looks owie though...:( Glad he's healing quickly too though!

[EasternGirl]

Is the food eventually getting past the injury site and he is pooping normally? That looked awful in the first couple of pics after the shed...it does look better now. I am glad he is in caring and experienced hands. He couldn't have found a better home! Have you considered talking to your vet about him? Your vet sounds like a good guy that knows a lot about snakes.

[mikem]

Keep doing what you're doing. I think he's gonna pull through just fine. :)

[ConcinusMan]

Me too. Healing nicely.

[guidofatherof5]

He just shed again today. He was able to complete the shed without any help from me(good sign)
Things are looking so much better. The open flesh after the last shed has been replaced with skin/scar tissue this time.
I think a couple more sheds and this thing will be healed for the most part.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//743/medium/injured_tsc6.jpghttp://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//743/medium/injured_tsc7.jpghttp://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//743/medium/injured_tsc8.jpg

[kibakiba]

I'm glad to hear he's going well. It's really awesome to see how much it's healed!

[Invisible Snake]

Glad to see he is doing better, good thing he's in your care.

[Wheat]

Thats cool its healing up. Looking at the wound then and now is crazy.

[InsanePirateDragon]

Oh that looks so much better, no more pink! And a full shed without much trouble is a good sign at this stage.

[Selkielass]

Worlds better! Excellent!

[ProXimuS]

Wow:eek: He's looking 10x better! Glad he's doing well!!

[guidofatherof5]

Took this photo today.
Looks like there is very little scar tissue developing, just nice skin.
This little male is becoming one of my favorites from the T.s.concinnus paddock. Very easy to work with and certainly lets me mess with his injury without any complaints.
The white substance is zinc oxide in case you were wondering.
Looks like it's time for another names the snake contest. I'll post the contest a little later today.
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//743/medium/injured_tsc9.jpg

[-MARWOLAETH-]

It's good to see the little bugger's patched up nicely:).Does the wound restrict his movement in that area?

[ProXimuS]

Man, he's really lookin good! Glad he's done well through the whole healing period!

[thamneil]

Looks like a good recovery. Good work doctor Steve! ;)

[guidofatherof5]

Food is also passing much better now. This injury doesn't seem to slow this male down in anyway.

[kueluck]

Steve, I don't understand your statement about "one of my favorites". How many "ones" do you have???? :D

[-MARWOLAETH-]

'Tis but a scratch;)

[guidofatherof5]

Steve, I don't understand your statement about "one of my favorites". How many "ones" do you have???? :D


I have 5 T.s.concinnus males.

[ConcinusMan]

Told you it wasn't that bad ;)

[guidofatherof5]

Took some photos this morning of this once injured male T.s.concinnus (Red-spotted garter).
He wasn't happy about being awakened for an early morning photo shoot.
He continues to do well. He still has to concentrate and work the food past the injury site be it seems to be getting easier with each meal.
I'm guessing it will be this way for the rest of his life but it shouldn't be an issue of big concern.
It certainly won't keep him out of the breeding cycle next Spring.:D
He lost some scales but has healed nicely.

http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//743/medium/con_scar.jpg
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//743/medium/con_scar1.jpg
http://www.thamnophis.com/thamphotos/data//743/medium/con_scar2.jpg

[snake man]

Good to here he is a little trooper.

[-MARWOLAETH-]

Chewy looks great:).Is it still scar material or is it proper skin now?

[ProXimuS]

Lookin good Chewy;) Maybe after a little more time, he'll gain more elasticity in that area.(?)

[EasternGirl]

Chewy looks like he wants to chew on you for taking those pics! Lol...Glad he has healed up nicely.

[guidofatherof5]

Chewy looks great:).Is it still scar material or is it proper skin now?


I think it's a mixture of both.


Lookin good Chewy;) Maybe after a little more time, he'll gain more elasticity in that area.(?)

Hoping he will but if not he seems to be handling the situation very well.

[mikem]

Thanks for the update. Glad he's doing well :)

[kueluck]

Yeah for the healing........but lookin' at those pics makes my butt pucker...........it just LOOKS so painful.

[Selkielass]

Great shot of the healed injury. This series showing the healing progression (and shedding setbacks.) Has been very valuable
- I took in a cat mauled snake who didnt look too bad until he shed. Remembering this guy helped me soldier on without too much panic.