breeding checkereds

[gazzamann]

so here goes i plan on breeding an albino checkered female with a normal checkered to get 100% het for albinos. off the litter would you be able too breed with in i.e brothers and sisters or is tht a big no no ? cheers gaz

[chris-uk]

Breeding siblings isn't ideal, how big a "no no" varies depending on who you ask. I'd breed a rarer species or morph back to a parent if it was necessary, for example to prove out a morph.
Given that checkereds are relatively common it shouldn't be difficult to find some unrelated het albino checkereds.

Just my opinion, other opinions are available. :)

[gazzamann]

sorry chris am still new to breeding it wont be for another year or so but do you mean breading a morph of checkered garter to the albino , cheers again

[guidofatherof5]

This is just my opinion but I think breeding siblings in the Checkered (T.marcianus) line is a bad idea.
I think this has been done so much that genetic problems are happening.
I would suggest you attempting to purchase an unrelated snake if it's even possible to know they are unrelated.
It's a shame there has been so much of this type of breeding being done. Much of it being done by people who only look at the albino line as "cool" and produce more at the cost of the snakes health. This in turn ruins the future of the babies to be born.

[gazzamann]

cheers steve i wont be breeding siblings then , i had an idea it was bad but i was just making sure

[chris-uk]

sorry chris am still new to breeding it wont be for another year or so but do you mean breading a morph of checkered garter to the albino , cheers again

Sorry, no I was being more general. I wouldn't breed checkered siblings with each other, you don't know how many times the albino parent's line has already been inbred.
Because albino checkereds are so easy to get hold of I can't see any scenario where I would feel the need to mate siblings just to get albino checkereds. I'd try to find someone else who produces some albino checkereds at the same time as you and arrange to swap some babies.
In theory, I could be a season and a normal male away from checkered albino hets, but I've made a conscious decision that I don't intend to go down the albino checkered path.

[guidofatherof5]

cheers steve i wont be breeding siblings then , i had an idea it was bad but i was just making sure

Good question to ask. It's just a shame these beautiful snakes are in this situation and I would think it's worse for them in the U.K. as there is even less unrelated snakes to work with.

[gazzamann]

or yea cheers chris i understand that now :D

[gazzamann]

i no steve iv only been into garters a few month now but they seem to be really hard to get hold of , checkereds seem to be the most popular

[twostripes42]

I've known ball python breeders to breed siblings together. Is it different with garter snakes?

[guidofatherof5]

No. Sometimes siblings are bred together.

[Steveo]

Sibling/sibling or parent/child parings are typically done to propagate recessive traits such as albinism. In most species you can get away with it for a few generations but you do need to outcross to an unrelated animal every so often. It's always better if you can get the desired results by crossing unrelated animals, but that's not always possible.


I used to breed show-quality fish of many species in college. The way line breeding is typically done in that hobby is to develop two different desirable traits in two different lines for a few generations, then combine the two and see what you get. Since it's much easier to ship reptiles compared to fish, it's usually not too difficult to find an unrelated animal to work with.

Finding albino or morphs in the wild is really advantageous because 1) it's cool and 2) it gives you (presumably) an unrelated animal to work into your stock.

[chris-uk]

I've known ball python breeders to breed siblings together. Is it different with garter snakes?

I think it's less common with garters than royal (ball) pythons for the simple reason that with royals it's all about breeding the latest morph and whilst the original breeder can breed offspring back to the parent anyone buying a pair from the breeder only has one option.
With garters there are morphs, but the majority of keepers are as interested in normal garters. Sure, a lot of us have at least one morph, but there's so many garter species that I think most crave the more unusual species more than the different morph.

[twostripes42]

I think it's less common with garters than royal (ball) pythons for the simple reason that with royals it's all about breeding the latest morph and whilst the original breeder can breed offspring back to the parent anyone buying a pair from the breeder only has one option.
With garters there are morphs, but the majority of keepers are as interested in normal garters. Sure, a lot of us have at least one morph, but there's so many garter species that I think most crave the more unusual species more than the different morph.
That makes since :)

[Spankenstyne]

Totally agree with the above. Even though it wouldn't likely be a problem, it's always a better idea to try and outcross lines when possible. Helps at least offer some possible genetic diversity to keep the lines strong. The funny thing is that pretty much every "normal" CB checkered is het for albino anyway, so finding a "normal" from another breeder will probably get you a het.

[guidofatherof5]

Totally agree with the above. Even though it wouldn't likely be a problem, it's always a better idea to try and outcross lines when possible. Helps at least offer some possible genetic diversity to keep the lines strong. The funny thing is that pretty much every "normal" CB checkered is het for albino anyway, so finding a "normal" from another breeder will probably get you a het.

Good point Chris. Mine are all hets.:D