Hereditary blindness

[kibakiba]

I'd like to breed Runt in a few years, assuming my situation is better than right now... She's beautiful and she's the strongest snake I have, and aside from being partially blind, she's amazingly healthy. The only thing that stops me from wanting to breed her when she's an adult is the fact that she is partially blind. I don't want the babies eye sight to be affected. I'm not sure if she's always been partially blind, but she's shown problems the entire time I've kept her. If her blindness is something that could be passed onto her offspring, would all of them have affected eyesight, or just some? I'd like to have a few opinions on the matter.
I don't plan on selling any babies, I just want my own Runt babies... Haha.

[guidofatherof5]

I don't think there is anyway to know Chantel. Without knowing the cause of Runt's blindness first.
I'm in a similar situation with my Tourette.
I think it with come down to your decision in the end.

[mb90078]

Is she WC or CB?

[kibakiba]

Runt was WC, based on her size then she was 6-12 months old. I guess if I do breed her, if any of them ended up really unhealthy in some way, I could put them down, and I'd have at least some sort of knowledge about her problems.

[mb90078]

I was asking, because if it happened to be CB there could have been severe inbreeding causing it. Being WC I happen to think the likelihood is less likely to be genetic and more likely to be caused by the environment, but of course, there's no way to know for certain.

[ConcinusMan]

Lets be clear about one thing. Inbreeding does not cause genetic diseases such as inheritable blindness, just like it doesn't cause amelanism (albinism) or a host of other inheritable traits, "good" or "bad". Inbreeding simply increases the chances of producing offspring that express "desirable" traits, (such as albinism, anery, high red, etc.) and in the process, any "undesirable" traits such as stub tails, bug eye, dwarfism, brain issues, and a few billion others, will also come to be expressed more frequently as well.

Being WC does not necessarily mean a snake doesn't carry a serious load of inheritable "bad" traits. In fact, all the "bad" traits we see in severely inbred snakes came from wild snakes in the first place. No matter how much we domesticate an animal, the morphs "we" come up with, come from genetics which were present all along.

Chantel, there is no reason to believe that Runt's eyesight issues are inheritable, or detrimental even if it is inheritable. Like you said, "aside from being partially blind, she's amazingly healthy". I'm sure there's a few million other snakes out there like that and they're fine. The eyesight issue is not likely to effect the offspring, and so what if it does as long as they are otherwise fit or can compensate for it with intelligence, physical strength, hardiness, etc.

Not breeding her just because she has eyesight issues....:rolleyes:

[kibakiba]

Well I don't want a bunch of blind babies. It would make me sad. I have a hard enough time getting her to eat, because movement scares her... But it just takes an hour in a small dark box and she eventually gets her pinky halves down. It's a hard task wrangling her and getting her in the box, and since the babies will be kept as stictly pets for me, and maybe friends, I wouldn't want blindness to make feeding a whole lot harder. Snakes like Derpy are ones that I wouldn't exactly want to breed, because he has legitimate brain problems and I do think, in his case, it would be inherited. He's a crazy short bus snake. A good pet/friend, though.

[mb90078]

Of course, I didn't intend to over-simplify things. The combination of the fact that the snake could have had a rough life in the wild, and the reduced likelihood of the abnormality being caused by (brought out by, if you prefer) inbreeding over many generations, lead me to believe that the likelihood is that the offspring will not have a blindness disorder.

[ConcinusMan]

Of course, I did intend to complicate.:D

But yeah, I agree.

Chantel, you worry too much. If you inbreed for many generations and more than a few offspring are blind, then you may be onto something.;)

[kibakiba]

Of course I worry too much. From the minute I laid eyes on my new babies, just a couple minutes after they were born I was attached to them. I wouldn't want any offspring to have issues, because I'd have a hard time dealing with it, and if I'm upset over that... I start getting depressed, and I wouldn't be taking that great of care of my snakes due to the lethargy.
I don't plan on inbreeding, though, if I could help it. The only way it'd happen is if I accidentaly left someone in the tank for too long while cleaning the other tanks.

[Spankenstyne]

Of course I worry too much. From the minute I laid eyes on my new babies, just a couple minutes after they were born I was attached to them. I wouldn't want any offspring to have issues, because I'd have a hard time dealing with it, and if I'm upset over that... I start getting depressed, and I wouldn't be taking that great of care of my snakes due to the lethargy.
I don't plan on inbreeding, though, if I could help it. The only way it'd happen is if I accidentaly left someone in the tank for too long while cleaning the other tanks.

I would say from this post to not breed her. While it's not likely a hereditary condition for the reasons already mentioned, if there's a chance of it effecting you that deeply then imo it's not worth the risk to your mental well being and the care of your animals. Just enjoy Runt for the special snake that she is & if you feel differently in a few years then you can always rethink things then.

[Thamnophis]

Chantel, blindness CAN be genetic, but the chances are not that big, I think.

You must look at the good qualities of Runt. There must be many cause you like this snake that much.
And those qualities can be reason enough to breed.

[kibakiba]

Well, Chris, I've dealt with my two beloved concinnus dying, and I had to put them down myself. I do have emotional problems, but at the same time, after putting Snap and Ember down... Nothing really seems as hard as that was. I am also on medication for stuff like that so it wouldn't be *as* bad as it used to be. At most I'd just slow down on feeding time. Who knows, in 3 years, when Runty is an adult, I may be in perfect mental health. In 3 years I (hope) I'd have a job, and if I do (that's a big if for now) I could have a few shoe boxes if the babies ended up partially blind/blind.

I don't know if you can tell, but the tone of my posts changes based on my mood while I was typing them. That is the loveliness of my... Condition? Haha. I can go from pessimistic, to realistic and optimistic within an hour! :D

[ConcinusMan]

Chantel, blindness CAN be genetic, but the chances are not that big, I think

I agree. Besides, if you breed them to be captives (pets) the eyesight issue isn't an issue at all. Even wild snakes can live for years completely or partially blind. Its no big deal for captives. They don't even need the advantage of good eyesight in the absence of predators, and they don't need it for hunting either. I didn't care one bit about Amy's nearly blind condition and he didn't seem to care either.

[Spankenstyne]

Hi Chantel,

I wasn't inferring any emotional problems or mental health issues. I don't know you well enough to make such a judgement & wasn't aware that there was an existing condition involved or that you were on medication. I apologise if it appeared more personal than I intended, I certainly wouldn't make light of such a thing.

I only meant "mental well being" in the sense of one's immediate mood really and that if it was to be an upsetting enough result that would really get to you, then you may wish to wait and rethink it down the road.

I try not to read too much into posts and tend to take them at face value. I'm quite an easygoing, happy guy in person so I tend to take posts in that sort of conversational mindset. Cheeky & sarcastic perhaps, but certainly not mean spirited. Nothing negatively personal was intended.

Cheers,
Chris



Well, Chris, I've dealt with my two beloved concinnus dying, and I had to put them down myself. I do have emotional problems, but at the same time, after putting Snap and Ember down... Nothing really seems as hard as that was. I am also on medication for stuff like that so it wouldn't be *as* bad as it used to be. At most I'd just slow down on feeding time. Who knows, in 3 years, when Runty is an adult, I may be in perfect mental health. In 3 years I (hope) I'd have a job, and if I do (that's a big if for now) I could have a few shoe boxes if the babies ended up partially blind/blind.

I don't know if you can tell, but the tone of my posts changes based on my mood while I was typing them. That is the loveliness of my... Condition? Haha. I can go from pessimistic, to realistic and optimistic within an hour! :D

[kibakiba]

I wasn't offended or anything, I make fun of my own problems as a way of dealing with it and I'm open when it comes to talking about it, so don't worry about it. Stuff like that doesn't bother me anymore and I've learned to deal with it. I didn't mean to sound rude, if I did. I tend to word things weird sometimes. I tend to be a happy, sarcastic sort of person. I'm sorry if you thought I meant something rude! Anything that has "haha" or a :D face usually means I'm in a great mood, and I'm making a lighthearted joke about my own problems ;)

[Spankenstyne]

I didn't take your response as rude at all, just wanted to make sure you weren't thinking I was being an arse (at least intentionally lol). It's all good. I'm a longtime mod on one of the most trolled & nastiest sites around, I don't tend to take anything personally. I don't know if it's even possible to actually offend me lol. There are lots of good people here & folks newer to the hobby so I try to play nice.

[kibakiba]

No need to play nice with me, I don't get offended too much anymore. If someone is taking a (non-playful) jab at my 'issues' it might upset me a little bit, but I know people seem to like to poke fun at things they don't understand. I am awesome and indestructable! Lol.

[Selkielass]

Finding the single non viable offspring of Abby and Ziva afffected me deeply for at least a week, in large I think because. It was a complete surprise. The associated smell of unfertilized eggs hits me *hard* every time Abby passes more jellies.
Weird how the mind works, eh?
Id say breed her and plan on pet-homes for all offspring. Poor eyesight isn't much of a problem for pets as others have said.