4 Newcomers

[Finalflash50]

Some people may know about my snake, Lightning. He is doing great, and finally, with his oversized tank, he's about to get 4 new snakes in with him. All garters of the same kind. I just have a few questions. He's been in his tank alone for a while now. It isn't going to bother him that someone new is joining him, is it? I haven't seen them in person yet, and pictures make it difficult to decipher the size, but if I can tell correctly, they are the same size as him, so I don't think there would be any trouble. My main concern is that he might be freaked out that there are new snakes in with him. Oh and also, in feeding time, should I feed them all at once? Or separate them. One thing I am going to do is buy 4 new coconuts from my nearest tropical store. I don't want Lightning being separated from his long-time home. (Yeah, I know one of them will take it sooner or later, but he can just go in a different one. As far as he knows, they are all the same.)

Just for some background information, these are lab snakes that need a home. A science center that my mom is associated with is moving. They are getting rid of animals they don't want, and the nearest thought to be safe place for a snake is far away, so the people of the center thought best if they were given a home. There were 3 more garters, but they were much bigger, and of a different sub-specie. I just gave that bit of information to let everyone know that I'm not harvesting these snakes from the wild. I only did that with Lightning because he had a slim chance of making it, seeing how isolated he was from other snakes, and that there was already snowfall.

Thanks for any advice.

[kibakiba]

You should quarentine them before putting them with your snake. You should also have another tank just in case he doesn't like the company. Snap didn't really enjoy having certain other snakes in with her. Every snake is different.

[guidofatherof5]

What species is Lightning?
Lab snakes? as in how?
Are you going to quarantine the new snakes? I suggest you do.
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/husbandry/7224-quarantine-talk-thread.html
There shouldn't be any trouble housing them together. Lightning might even find some comfort being with others.

[thamneil]

Garters usually don't have a problem with communal housing. Assuming your enclosure is large enough, they should fare well.

As for feeding, I feed all of my snakes together. Just keep an eye on them and be ready to intervene if you have any incidents. Good luch with the new snakes!

[Finalflash50]

Oh of course I have a separate tank in case he doesn't like them. I don't think he would mind though. He barely shows aggression towards his food, let alone another snake. As for the other snakes, they are in a tank together as we speak. What I mean by lab snakes, is that they were born and raised in a lab. Lightning is an Eastern Garter Snake. I will admit that I don't have much evidence concluding that they are also easterns, but they look pretty darn similar, and are identical in size. I was told long ago in this forum that as long as a partner is in the Thamnophis family, they will be able to live together. I'm willing to accept the exception of Lightning or one of the other four snakes not being able to share the space. If this is the case, I will release the others where it is safe. I am not going to put any snake in the world through stress that isn't required.

[kibakiba]

Quarentining is best before you stick them with Lightning. They also need to be the same sex as him.

[Light of Dae]

I would not release those lab raised snakes into the wild if Lightning doesn't like them... They are used to captivity.... at least find then good homes if it doesn't work out.

[katach]

Yes, I agree. In many cases it is illegal to release animals into the wild if they did not come from that location, and as light said, they are used to captivity. There are many people here on the forum that I'm sure would give one or all of them a good home. If it isn't working out just post on the classified section. Let us know how things are going when they arrive.

[guidofatherof5]

Oh of course I have a separate tank in case he doesn't like them. I don't think he would mind though. He barely shows aggression towards his food, let alone another snake. As for the other snakes, they are in a tank together as we speak. What I mean by lab snakes, is that they were born and raised in a lab. Lightning is an Eastern Garter Snake. I will admit that I don't have much evidence concluding that they are also easterns, but they look pretty darn similar, and are identical in size. I was told long ago in this forum that as long as a partner is in the Thamnophis family, they will be able to live together. I'm willing to accept the exception of Lightning or one of the other four snakes not being able to share the space. If this is the case, I will release the others where it is safe. I am not going to put any snake in the world through stress that isn't required.

I don't mean to be a pest but...
This doesn't answer the question about quarantine.
You are right about keeping Thamnophis together but are missing a very important piece of information and that is they need to be the same sex.
Any chance we can see a few photos of Lightning and the others, this way we can try to ID them for you.
I would also be amiss if I didn't say something about you possibly releasing the captive bred snakes. I wouldn't recommend that as the health of the released snakes and any wild snakes in the area are at risk. Pathogens new to both groups could mean the death of all the snakes involved. It would be better to find homes for the captive bred snakes.

[Finalflash50]

Thank you for the information on not releasing lab snakes. I would have probably done that. Anyway I obtained the snakes today, and they are now under quarantine. I don't think they cared for the ride home. My car was very hot, although I had all units of air conditioning on them. Some of the roads were bumpy, and at one point, I had to brake hard due to an ambulance turning. Other than that, the snakes look fine. One of them isn't moving much, but I think he is under slight shock, or he is in the middle of molting.

[guidofatherof5]

Shedding;)

Make sure they have access to water immediately.

[Finalflash50]

They have access alright. They all went straight to the water immediately and gulped down all they could. I've never seen a snake's jaws move like that. They were thirsty. Anyway how long should they remain in quarantine? What I did is I separated them in different plastic containers, but I was debating if I should put them together or not, since they were together in the lab, the transfer to my container, and the ride home.

I just hope they all want to eat the same thing.

There's a funny story. The hole that is in this container had already been there I guess for the food that it is meant to contain. I taped over it in a way that the breeze would still get in, and the snakes couldn't get out. When I got home, I took the tape off, and came to these forums for information. I looked at the snakes when the page was loading, and there were only 3 inside. The 4th one, the biggest, was chilling on my desk next to the container. I just laughed, picked him up and put him back in. He didn't struggle a bit either. He's the one that is shedding.

Now for some description on the snakes.

One of them is about the same size as lightning, but a smaller head. Unlike lightning, his side stripe does not connect with the color on the bottom of him like on lightning. It is a separate stripe. He has the signature 3 garter snake stripes. The traditional dark green/blackish color, with the bright orange/yellowish stripes. He is a very good looking snake with shiny scales.

There are two that look identical. They are both very small. Smaller heads than lightning, and they are probably 2 inches shorter, which is very small. They look the same as the other one in color. They are both very active. These are the only two I am going to have trouble telling apart.

The last, but not least, the big one. I can tell this is the oldest of them. He has a bigger head, and body than all of the other ones. He is colored differently. He has more of a minty green color to his stripes. Also, his side stripes connect to his bottom color in the same way Lightning's does. He also has the orange color towards his neck and head. I think this one is genetically the closest to lightning. He is colored the most similar (With the exception of the green.)

They are all beautiful snakes. None of them show any aggression at all. I'm happy to have such a sweet bunch of garters. I am looking forward to the next few months when the quarantine finishes and I can hopefully combine their homes.

[Dan72]

Well I'm new to this so I'm sure someone with experience will jump in here for this one. BUt IMO, my understanding of quarantining new animals is to not infect your collection be that 1 or 100 snakes with anything the new animals may pass on. So if they were all together up until now I would think they could stay that way. Might even be less stress for them in trying to get used to their new environment.

[guidofatherof5]

There are different sides to this housing coin. Separating them during quarantine allows for individual observation, which is a good thing.
Keeping them together will lower their stress levels since this is a new situation for them.

This thread should answer some of your quarantine questions.
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/husbandry/7224-quarantine-talk-thread.html

[Finalflash50]

One of the two small ones shed his skin. I'm starting to think more and more that the 3 smaller ones are ribbon snakes. They have a thin body with more distinct stripes, with a slight dot on the head. They have just as much of a forehead dot as that of a regular eastern garter though, so I'm still debating it. If I had a camera that could help anyone here tell or not, I would get it out in a jiffy. Anyway, the good news is they are all up for eating the same thing as Lightning, which means I don't have to change up buying the food. I can keep it the same.

[guidofatherof5]

We would love to see some photos ;) You know, to help ID the snakes:D

[Finalflash50]

I'll have some photos soon. I have some names in mind.
One of them is going to be named Plissken, named after character 'Snake Plissken' in the movie Escape from new york. I think it's going to be the second to biggest. The small one is really fast. He moves through the cage in seconds. I might call him Sonic, after Sonic the Hedgehog. The other one could be named Flash. I'm still thinking of a name for the big one.
Edit: I just now realized that a replied user on this thread actually has Snake Plissken as his profile picture. That is the movie character that one of my boys are going to be named after.

[Dan72]

I'll have some photos soon. I have some names in mind.
One of them is going to be named Plissken, named after character 'Snake Plissken' in the movie Escape from new york. I think it's going to be the second to biggest. The small one is really fast. He moves through the cage in seconds. I might call him Sonic, after Sonic the Hedgehog. The other one could be named Flash. I'm still thinking of a name for the big one.
Edit: I just now realized that a replied user on this thread actually has Snake Plissken as his profile picture. That is the movie character that one of my boys are going to be named after.

That movie seems to have left an impression on those of us that have seen it, for sure if you caught it at the right age where the films of your early childhood never go away. There is another forum member that uses an image of Kurt Russell from this film for their avatar, they go by Plissken on the forum. I just switched mine not to long ago, had watched the movie and was feeling inspired. Three 80's movies I could watch again and again.... The Thing, Escape From New York, and Big Trouble in Little China. Notice any connection...;).

[Finalflash50]

I used my dad's camera to get some nice pictures.
The first one is Lightning, just to finally get a good picture of him, then I captured some other people. There's only one that I didn't capture, and that's because he was sleeping in the coconut and I didn't want to wake him up.
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And those are classic movies.

[Invisible Snake]

Hey what type of garter is Lightning?

[kibakiba]

Lightning looks like a red sided. I'm guessing eastern or red sided on the others. I cant really tell with the darkness though.

[RedSidedSPR]

Looks more like an eastern with some flameish colors then a redsided.

[Finalflash50]

I'm pretty sure Lightning is an Eastern. He has some orange on his neck though. It think the minty green one in the picture of just his head is an eastern too. I can pretty much conclude that the other 3 are Ribbon Snakes. There is one that I didn't capture, but he is identical in appearance to the small one that is looking around on top of the coconut. I'll have more pictures with I can figure out how to work the camera more properly.

[kibakiba]

They look like males, not ribbons. But that's just my opinion from what I can see in those pictures.

[Finalflash50]

Yeah they are males. I told the former owner of the snakes that I had a male garter, so I could only accept the males that were in the size range. There were 10 other male garters I think, but different sizes and species. I didn't really get much info on the kind of species that the four that I got are. That's why I am debating it.

[EasternGirl]

Just catching up to this thread so I apologize if I repeat things that have already been said...just want to give my opinion. :). I agree with what the other members have been telling you. Although those snakes were raised in a lab, we have no way of knowing what the conditions were...so quarantining is a must. Since the snakes were already together, separate quarantines are not necessary...if the snakes do better with company, you may want to keep them together...but separate from the snake you already had for at least 60 days...90 would be optimal. The fact that they were so thirsty makes me wonder how they were treated. I'm glad you have them now. You may want to post pics of the vent area of the snakes so we can confirm sex. In my experience, garters adjust to having a roommate and do much better with company...but you will have to see how the snakes do when you put them together...every garter is different. I will look over the pics now to comment on subspecies...

[EasternGirl]

It's hard to tell from that pic of Lightning...but I'm going to agree with eastern at this point. I would have to see more of his body. His head and face look eastern. The others look like they could be red-sideds...although the heads and faces look eastern as well...some easterns from up north can have coloring and patterns like those. I'm not seeing ribbons though...if you could post some more pics...getting the entire body including tail...it would help.

[Light of Dae]

I'd say lightning is an eastern n the others are red-sided. They look like the ones from narcsiss dens in Manitoba. .... I know there was some research being done on them... where though, i don't know.

[Finalflash50]

They all ate today except for Plissken. It is starting to because very difficult for him to see, since he needs to shed so much now. His eyes are looking very foggy. As soon as he does, I'll feed him. They all want to eat the same thing, fortunately. The good news is, Lightning can eat full worms now. He doesn't need me to cut them up anymore. As for Plissken, Sonic and Flash, I think I need to cut them up for them. They are from a slightly different type of garter snake than Lightning and the big one (Still don't have a name for him yet) so their heads are more narrow. I will continue to cut the worms up for them. That's why I thought they were Ribbon snakes.

[Finalflash50]

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I got more pictures of them. The last one is Plissken. As you can see, his eye is really fogged.

[chris-uk]

Look like parietalis to me. The 3rd and 4th pics show some interesting colour on the lower scales.

[BUSHSNAKE]

you have T.s.sirtalis and the darker brown ones are T.butleri, they look like Ohio specimens

[Finalflash50]

Only Lightning and the big one have that color quality. The others do not have the flamish color.

Also, they are not far from Ohio. They were in a science center in Kalamazoo, and now in Macomb County. And I never suspected a Butlers garter snake. That's probably what they are.

[EasternGirl]

I don't know much about Butlers...but Joe knows his snakes. :)

[Finalflash50]

I've decided to name the big one, Titan. His size difference from the other snakes makes him stand out. My dad's business name has Titan in it, and that is also the name of my hockey team. Titan is his name.
The gang; Lightning, Titan, Sonic, Flash and Plissken.

[Finalflash50]

I can't seem to get Plissken to eat. I put them all in a red container for their first feedings. Titan couldn't get enough, and Flash and Sonic enjoyed the meal. I put Plissken in there with some cut up worms, and a whole worm to see what he prefers. He would just look at them. He has already shed his skin,m so I don't know why he doesn't want to eat. I'm just going to feed them all at once from now on, and hope that he learns from them. Maybe he will want to eat if he sees the others doing so.

[katach]

Some snakes get too stressed to eat when moved. Try feeding in the tank if you can, or put him in the feeding tank and wait a while before offering food.

[Finalflash50]

I left him in the container for about an hour with worms. The worms were already in there when I put him in there.

[katach]

I would put him in first, let him settle, and then offer, or feed in his enclosure. I have a few snakes that just won't eat unless they are in their home. You just have to watch they don't ingest substrate.

[Finalflash50]

I will try that if today fails. Today is feeding day, and I am going to cut the worms into small pieces. He should want to eat if he sees everyone else eating.

[Finalflash50]

Plissken finally ate today. Watching the others eat is what did it. Now I am slightly paranoid about them eating together. I'm just scared that they are going to fight over the food. The closest I had to a fight was when Flash went to take a worm. When he was swallowing it, Titan followed him around closely. I pulled him away with my finger and then he quickly became interested in getting his own. Does this ever happen to anyone else?
Also, new pictures.
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[guidofatherof5]

With a plate full of food in front of them they will follow the lone snake that has food in its mouth.:D
Happens all the time.

[Finalflash50]

I think Sonic is becoming the best behaved snake. None of them ever move around too much and they all calm down very quickly when I pick them up, but Sonic is interested the second I stick my hand in there. He even comes right up to my hand to smell it. They are all starting to get used to things. Also, Lightning is going to shed any second right now. His chin and nose are peeling as I type this.

[guidofatherof5]

Shedding is usually such a good sign. Congrats.