radix vs maricanus differences?

[scorpion0151]

Could someone point me in the right dierction please? I want to know how to tell the difference between a Radix and a Marcianus. I thouight I knew the difference but seems I'm mistaken, I'd like to check my lot to see if I at least got them right or wrong.

[kimbosaur]

I think you'd find this thread useful :)

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/garter-snake-lounge/10130-id-please-asap.html

[scorpion0151]

thanks I was a bit confused at the beggining of the thread but it's a bit clearer now I think lol.

[guidofatherof5]

Would like me to list scale counts and other id info?

[chris-uk]

It's a tough call, and you can't be definitive on scale counts alone (Steve - the scale counts cross-over between these two species don't they?). The marcianus is supposed to have quite a distinctive facial pattern - having a couple of radix and a couple of marcianus, I think I'd tell the difference, but there's a lot of variation with radix so basing my view on experience of 2 of each species isn't the most valuable.

[scorpion0151]

I'll have to get some photos of what I have and put them up to check and see if I have it right with the new info I have :) I think I have 1 radix and 3 checkerd now not including my albino checkereds.

[scorpion0151]

Would like me to list scale counts and other id info?

yes please the more info I get the better, what is the "bible" I see people keep reffering to?

[Invisible Snake]

Could someone point me in the right dierction please? I want to know how to tell the difference between a Radix and a Marcianus.

An easier way to tell the difference is that the Marcianus species look better than any Radix, right Steve :p

[EasternGirl]

The bible is The Garter Snakes: Evolution and Ecology by Rossman, Ford, and Seigel. A book we all use for garter snake info. Highly recommended...it can be found on amazon.com, you can usually find a used copy. If you could put pics up of your snakes, that would be good...we could have a look and try to confirm species for you.

[guidofatherof5]

An easier way to tell the difference is that the Marcianus species look better than any Radix, right Steve :p

Funny, funny.:D.........................NO.:D

[scorpion0151]

The bible is The Garter Snakes: Evolution and Ecology by Rossman, Ford, and Seigel. A book we all use for garter snake info. Highly recommended...it can be found on amazon.com, you can usually find a used copy. If you could put pics up of your snakes, that would be good...we could have a look and try to confirm species for you.

wow that's quite expensive for a book :)

[guidofatherof5]

T.marcianus (Checkered garter snake)
Dorsal scales- maximum of 21 or 19 rows.
Supralabials 8, a distinctive head pattern (black-bordered brown area covering supralabials 7 or 8, bracketed anteriorly by a light area extending from postoculars to edge of the lip and posteriorly by a narrow light crescent, a third light area also extending from preoculars to edge of lip) lateral stripe confined to 3rd dorsal scale row on neck( rows 2 and 3 thereafter)

T.radix (Plains garter snake-)(most awesome snake:D )
Dorsal scales in a max. of 21 or 19 rows(frequently only 19 on neck)
Supralabials usually 7 or 8 and infralabials 9 or 10
Maxillary teeth 20 to 27, light lateral stripe usually confined to row 3 and 4, dark stops between light stripes occasionally obscured by dark ground color.
Supralabial sutures with black bars and/or wedges.

Hope this helps.

[BUSHSNAKE]

the only consistant difference is the lateral stripes

[EasternGirl]

It isn't a cheap book...this is true...but it is definitely worth every penny. I probably reference it once a day.

[scorpion0151]

I've taken some pics of my garters in question, I'll post a few at a time and what I think they are from the info I've got from here and see if I'm right or not :)

Amber
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v379/scorpion0151/Snakes/Amber/DSCF8090.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v379/scorpion0151/Snakes/Amber/DSCF8091.jpg

My guess it Maricanus but the checks not touching is throwing me unless she's a hybrid :/



Jon (was called Don but renamed after PinJohn as I got this little guy from him)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v379/scorpion0151/Snakes/Jon/DSCF8005.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v379/scorpion0151/Snakes/Jon/IMG_0620.jpg

I think he's Maricanus




I'll post the others I would like confirming in a few days if that's ok? :)

[thamneil]

Looks like a marcianus to me and a good one at that. They can vary in colour quite a bit. Just my two cents.

-Neil

[guidofatherof5]

Beautiful snakes.
My first impression is they are both T.marcianus (Checkered garter snake)
With that being said I feel certain Jon is.
I would like to look at Amber awhile longer.;)

[chris-uk]

I'd say that they are both marcianus. Jon will definitely be a marcianus if you got him from Pinjohn last year (he had two marcianus litters, one normal x normal, and one albino x normal) we have one (and our friends have one) from that normal litter (unfortunately we had two FTT as well). I know for sure that John didn't have any other litters last year, so unless he's a small 2010 there's no doubt what Jon is.

I'd also agree that Amber is a marcianus. Quite a light colour in those pics, and like Steve I wouldn't be 100% about her being a marcianus.

[Invisible Snake]

Judging from those pics, they both appear to be marcianus aka checkered garter snakes.

[scorpion0151]

thanks for all your opinions, going by that I think I definatly have all maricanus and no radix.... well none til September anyway when I pickup my pair of Thamnophis radix erythristic ;p