Gravid?

[kueluck]

Just curious about your opinions on if Zena could be gravid or not. On another thread Marnie suggested that it may be possible she is gravid, and to start a thread on this for help. Here are some stats and pics:

She was in the wild and someone brought her from Southern VA 4-14-12 to the reptile rescue, because end of tail chopped off.

At reptile rescue for 2 weeks.

I brought her home 4-28-12, 19 inches 62 grams

Today still 19 inches but 67 grams, but I hope it's the 2 pinkies she ate last night, waiting for her to poop so I can weigh her again. She acts like she hungry all the time.

She eats Mon, 2 pinkies, Wed 2 earth worms, Fri 2 pinkie size tilapia pieces.

I bring her out each night and she runs through my fingers, or I take her into the hall way for "walks". She then settles down in my lap and sucks up body heat. I think she goes to sleep, but since she doesn't have eye lids I can't tell.:p

She's had 3 doses of Panacur for worms and the second round of doses starts May 20. If gravid, would this cause harm to the babies? Or do I need to focus strictly on Zena's health. :confused:

I tried to get the pics when she exhaled so she looks more true to size.

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[guidofatherof5]

I don't think at this point she looks gravid to me.
Also I think I read somewhere that panacur could have a negative effect on the babies.
I'll see if I can find that article.
Keep good track of he weight(weekly). That may be your best indicator at this point.
Best of luck with her. She's beautiful.

[ConcinusMan]

From the web: "Toxic shock due to system overload from dead parasite bodies is common in drugs such as Droncit and Ivermectin. Panacur is the drug of choice for gravid females."

"Panacur blocks metabolism of carbohydrates in nematodes. Essentially, the nematode can eat food, but cannot absorb the nutrients. Though it is eating, the worm starves to death. Panacur does not have the same effect on birds or mammals and as far as is known, does not block the metabolism of carbohydrates in reptiles"

Honestly, I don't think she's gravid. You would have seen far more weight gain in a shorter time period.

Whom ever brought her in should have let her be. A cut off tail isn't serious and heals quickly.

[ssssnakeluvr]

doesn't look gravid to me either....

[kueluck]

Thanks guys for your input on this. I don't want to go through the whole baby thing, not even once. As for adopting her, I had thought about letter her go, but then I held her and she is so incredibly sweet it's crazy. I can feed her from my fingers and she doesn't lunge or grab, she ever so gently takes the food. When she hears voices she comes out of her cave knowing she gets some “running” time in. She moves through my fingers then curls up on my lap while I rub the top of her head between my thumb and index finger. I knew they were nice snakes, but she is just so crazy sweet for a wild adult. She entertains my cats and has no fear of them Plus I think she also enjoys watching them as they go about their business through out the day. She is my Zena and my goal is to keep her healthy and happy.

[guidofatherof5]

Snakes + cats = injured or dead snakes.

I doubt she enjoys anything to do with the cat ;):D

I hope you and Zena have a great time.

[kueluck]

Steve, the cats in no way can get to Zena, she is very secure. But watching them watch each other through the glass is very interesting. They are nose to nose on the glass. The cats walk away and she follows. That is until she reaches the end of her tank.

[i_heart_sneakie_snakes]

Steve, the cats in no way can get to Zena, she is very secure. But watching them watch each other through the glass is very interesting. They are nose to nose on the glass. The cats walk away and she follows. That is until she reaches the end of her tank.

My snakes watch my cats too. Their food bowl is on a table that is directly next to the snakes aquarium. The cats have long since lost interest in my snakes though. The cats know they can't get to them anyway :)

[kueluck]

Well the question was answered some time over the past few days while I was out of town for a family funeral. My neighbor and husband took care of the critters while I was gone the past 6 days. Came home yesterday, went through the viv and found a dead baby in her hide. It was curled up, still flexible so I don't know how long it was there and if it was a stillborn or not. I'm keeping an eye out for any movement in the tank and checking the whole tank daily.

[kueluck]

She just passed another stillborn. It's fully developed and looked normal, but I wonder if the stress of captivity and the panacur could cause this. It's time for her 3rd session of doses to start again also. Headed out for work, we'll see what 5 pm brings.

[EasternGirl]

Gail...it really could be either...the stress of captivity or the medication...but it could also just be a natural thing. Cee Cee was taken into captivity while gravid...I of course did not know she was gravid at the time...and couldn't have left her where she was anyway. She ended up having 30 stillborns...that was last summer. Some members suggested it was the stress of captivity...other members have told me they have taken in gravid WC snakes that had healthy litters with no problems. The last time she was gravid...this past delivery...she had been on antibiotics during the pregnancy and the vet said it could have consequences for the babies. As you remember, she delivered 40 babies...only three lived. But considering the stillborns that she had last summer...I have to assume that there is just something going on with her in which she has trouble carrying. You may never know the reason. Cee Cee delivered for several weeks both times. Just keep an eye on her to make sure she passes all of the babies...and I will hope that you get some live ones.

[kueluck]

She doesn’t show any bulges so how do I know if she is passing all or not? This is the main reason why I didn’t want a female in the first place since I’ve read that if they don’t pass babies, they can calcify inside her and kill her. Just something else to worry about.

[kueluck]

So far no new stllborns or live babies. My hope is that she is done. She's not restless like she was and back to her piggy eating again. But then I switched from tilapia to salmon, which she LOVES.

[ProXimuS]

Sorry to hear about the stillborns:( Hoping for good news!

[kueluck]

This may sound harsh, but no babies ARE good news. I never intended to have babies so if she’s done then for me this is a good thing. I’ve got a new little redsided hopefully coming in next week. She will be Zena’s roomie once she gets bigger.

[kueluck]

Friday to Sat night 2 jellies, 1 still born. She's acting normal, not restless and eating like she did when I first got her. She's also lost 13 grams. I'm not stressing about this since she's active, eating and pooping.

[ProXimuS]

Glad she's still making progress. Keep us posted:)

[guidofatherof5]

Friday to Sat night 2 jellies, 1 still born. She's acting normal, not restless and eating like she did when I first got her. She's also lost 13 grams. I'm not stressing about this since she's active, eating and pooping.

I think you're doing all you can at this point.

[kueluck]

As of 6-25-12 the total is 6 stillborn 6, jellies 2.

They are still fully developed babies. I said I didn't want babies, but when I look at those little bodies it makes me sad and wish..........................................

[EasternGirl]

Gail...to answer your questions and respond to what you have said: First, I completely understand that you didn't want babies and were not prepared for them...so there is nothing wrong with being glad that she did not have any. I see too many people who want babies not fully understanding the huge responsiblity caring for little ones involves. But sure...I also understand your sadness when you see the stillborns. I have no idea what I would have done with 40 babies had all of Cee Cee's litter survived! I would be going out of my mind right now. But it doesn't mean I wasn't sad when I saw each little stillborn. It was sad...it was a death. But mixed emotions are normal. The best thing to do in terms of making sure she is passing everything is to feel her abdomen and vent area...make sure you don't feel any hard masses or see any signs of swelling. Like I said, it took Cee Cee three weeks to pass everything last summer and two weeks this year. If Zena is eating and pooping and active...these are all good signs. She will look very thin when it is all over...Cee Cee looked scary thin and wouldn't eat for weeks after it was all over...but she is eating now and finally putting weight on. If Zena is eating...she should gain some weight in no time. If you have any other questions...feel free to PM me as I have been through this a couple of times.

[kueluck]

Marnie, thanks for the input. I figured this is still very fresh in your mind and you would totally understand what is going on with me and Zena. She's acting like she did when I first brought her home. Eating well, pooping, active in the tank. She hangs out with us on the couch if we watch TV, just slithering from one set of legs to the other, then back again. My husband puts out a lot of body heat and she tends to head over to him right away. This is the first snake he has ever touched and I know her sweet personality has won him over. I'll try to give her belly a slight squeeze tonight. I'm guessing this may be the first time she musk’s me since I have never restrained her in any way. Yippy:p

[ConcinusMan]

No squeezing. Just a firm enough but loose grip, as she's moving through your fingers. As the lower 1/3 passes over your hand/fingers, a gravid female will have a "lumpy" feel. You can feel the string of eggs within her. Hard to detect if she isn't flowing, or moving through your fingers/hands and yet, if you're not gripping firmly enough, you might not feel the lumps.

[kueluck]

I don't mean squeezing like a tube of toothpaste, :p but like you describe. Still didn't feel anything and yet another stillborn in the den. :( But she is acting, eating and pooping like a healthy snake so no worries at this point.

[kueluck]

I think Zena is finally done. Her last stillborn was 6-28 and nothing since then. This brings the count to stillborn 9, jellies 2. I'm just glad this is done and no more boys for my girls!!

[guidofatherof5]

Is Zena back eating yet?

[kueluck]

Oh yes, that didn't last long at all. I got some salmon and she just about flies outta the viv for that! And she's also eating her worms and pinkies too.
Is Zena back eating yet?

[guidofatherof5]

Oh yes, that didn't last long at all. I got some salmon and she just about flies outta the viv for that! And she's also eating her worms and pinkies too.

Good news all the way around.